Heathers / The Burbank Tea Party (Guest: Mellinda Hensley)

Writer/Director Mellinda Hensley is Young, and also Restless, over the CLASSIC “Heathers” (1988) Starring - Winona Ryder, Christian Slater, and Shannen Doherty. Disagreements are abound in this episode RIFE with croquet chat, when to dislike anti-hero types called  ‘JD,’  and if our sponsor is Ice-T or Iced Tea (we assure you it’s neither. Neither. Neither nor neither)

PLOT: At Westerburg High where cliques rule, jocks dominate and all the popular girls are named Heather, it's going to take a Veronica and mysterious new kid to give teen angst a body count.

If you, or someone you know is having thoughts of suicide, there is hope, and there is help. The National Suicide Prevention Hotline is available 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year, at 988.
https://988lifeline.org/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=web&utm_campaign=onebox

Recorded 7/23
2hr 4mins

**All episodes contain explicit language**
Main Artwork - Ben McFadden
'Review Review Intro/Outro' Themes - Jamie Henwood
"What Are We Watching?" & "Whatcha Been Doin'?" Themes - Matthew Fosket
"Fun Facts" Theme - Chris Olds/Paul Root
Lead-Ins Edited/Conceptualized by - Ben McFadden
Produced by - Ben McFadden & Paul Root ("Shelf Help" - Paul Root)
Podcast/Program Concept - Paul Root

Transcript

You know what, your facial hair is so interesting to me because I never see it come or go. It just is. It just appears. It just is. Like, he'll just appear one day with a mustache and I'm like, don't know how you did that.

Honestly, same. Okay. Like, I'm inactive for two weeks. Weeks. Just like Ron Swanson already.

Oh, cool. Yeah. Oh, you're recording right now. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Oh, great. Yeah. This is good. Hey, everyone. I'm Paul.

I'm Paul. No. I'm Ben. That's correct. Got a guess.

We have a guest with us today. Melinda Hensley, writer, director, and flotation device, I'm told. Specifically, he was told to say only useful one, honestly. He was told to say that. In case of emergency, he didn't crash.

On his own. Let's be honest. I wonder if you just came to your own conclusion of that, like, I didn't tell you that. You're like, you know what? I should have taken credit.

I should have just not mentioned that you had said to say that. I feel like I would have come off so clever. So funny. Yeah. First time for everything.

So, hey, welcome to the review review, everyone. We already introduced Melinda who's here, Ben who's here. I'm here. You know what we do here. We watch a film that a guest brings to us that we normally are like, bring us something that you have a strong opinion about or something that you really want to revisit and unpack.

We're at the latter with this one. Oh, revisiting and an unpacking. We saw a movie called Heathers about candy bar hunting for a special Heath bar with a $250,000 price. Oh, I watched the wrong movie. With Heath Leisure.

Oh, starring Heath Leisure. Alright. Pete. Pete Leisure. But no.

We watched Heathers is what we actually watched. Isn't that fun? But before we get too far into Heathers, Melinda, tell us about you, please. Yeah. Writer, director by trade.

Currently a WGA member, so I'm getting my steps in. Union strong. Yeah. I started out writing for well I started out as an assistant for The Young and the Restless, everyone's mom's favorite show. Oh cool.

That is my mom's favorite show. It's a popular show in dentist waiting rooms everywhere. That is my mom's favorite show. No joke. I it pulls me in.

By the way, if I'm like getting an oil change or at the dentist or whatnot, it always pulls me in. How long has that been on the air? Fifth did they just celebrate their fiftieth anniversary? That's awesome. Yeah.

Are there because there's other soap operas. Are they still in there? Like Days are Alive still in the air? Yes. Well, Days got moved to Peacock, I think.

So I don't think it's actively on air, but, General Hospital is still on air. Bold and Beautiful is still on air. Wow. Yeah. There are four of them.

But no more passions. Man, we're Dallas. Oh, that's Dallas, baby. That's Dallas. Keep going.

Sorry. No. No. No. We're asking.

Hey. That's Dallas. Sorry. That's Dallas. That's Dallas.

Yeah. No. So I started out as an assistant there. I got bumped to IMDB lists me as an associate head writer, a heading I will gladly take. So I loved the work I did for them.

I left to go pursue another show, left to go pursue comedy, and that was in the ripe time of January 2020. Oh, boy. So we listen. I I was like, I'm gonna go do comedy and learn timing immediately. So that was that was good.

Great. Yeah. But but during the pandemic, I had I had the huge privilege of being able to pitch a show about, a corgi assassin. It's an an adult animated show about a corgi assassin. And by that, I mean a corgi who kills people, not a man who kills corgis.

I feel like I have to qualify that more and more because people genuinely wonder. Like I'm relieved right now. That's an awesome idea. Yeah. Yeah.

It was honestly, I it was such a fun different experience. I got to be in a lot of rooms that if I would have told myself I would have been doing this five years ago I wouldn't have believed you. So like that was really cool, really good experience. Directed a short film last year that's almost done. I'm really proud of it.

It's baby's first drama so I'm very jazzed about that. Nice. Awesome. Yeah yeah yeah. Yeah.

Right now, I'm working as a production manager at a music agency. So different, like slightly pivoting because of the strike and, like, everything else. But, you know, hoping to get back to it once, once we get a fair deal. So Yeah. I agree.

And people who've listened to this podcast before know we stand with the WGA and Ed SEG. By the time you hear this, SEG. Studios need to pay people and not themselves. That's basically all we're asking for. That'd be great.

Right? No. It's it's wild. Like, I've I've had conversations with folks while picketing and you hear numbers or what have you that certain people have, you know, gotten as residuals or in deals or what have you, especially in streaming. And it's shocking, especially when you don't know where your next job's gonna be in most cases as a writer or an actor.

Most of Yeah. Most creatives in this industry live at or below the poverty line. It's it's rough. And Yeah. It's a where or when because, like, you're it's very common to have years between gigs.

And so I feel like sometimes when you're presenting people with, like, the numbers that you're wanting, especially people who are outside California, that it it seems like a large number but it's like this number may have to last me for two, three years Yeah. As opposed to, you know, until I can jump to my next project because there are so many hurdles that are keeping us from entering other rooms, like room size, turnover, like that like just a bunch of other stupid hurdles. Lot of bullshit. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. So Yeah. Enough about that. I'll get off my soapbox.

No. No. I'm this is so insanely important. Yeah. When I was I was at Warner Brothers today, and there were less than 20 people there.

We're several weeks into this. And the big It's so hot. The it's so hot. It's so uncomfortable. Eight degrees today.

Right? Yeah. But we need bodies. SAG has a lot of bodies. Come out.

Show up. Do the thing. Are you telling me? No. I'm not telling you to do anything.

But I just would love to see more people as we're so deep into this. It would be great to have more people show up. And I don't live anywhere near Warner Brothers people who are trying to That's true. Stalk me. That's absolutely true.

As we've made very clear on this program who's been doxxed before. I've been swatted. That was so good. I Swatted like Minority Report style. Oh.

Or like Brazil, like a movie we've done on this. They just break in our doors. Yeah. Take us away. Edge of tomorrow.

Keep waking up and seeing Bill Paxton RIP's mustache, like my mustache. If I woke up and saw Bill Paxton alive, I would be so grateful. Can we before we talk about what we're watching woah. Bill? Are you here, Bill?

I'm leaving that, but also the themes here. Oh, yeah. I love that theme. It is so good. The theme.

Did you hear it? Yeah. We all heard it. Clear as a bell. Matthew Foskett did that meme for us.

It's true. Before we talk about what we're watching, what are can we say just, like, quickly, do people know their favorite Bill Paxton movie off the top? Yeah. Okay. Melinda's shaking her head nervously.

No. We might have similar ones. It's it's aliens. Okay. I think overall that's probably I guess what it is.

One false move the Carl Franklin film that he did, like, way back is, like, crazy good. Like I haven't seen it. Thick noir, dirty Twister? Yeah. It's great.

Twist Twister's so fun. Yeah. Twister is very fun. Twister's a fun popcorn movie. Yeah.

Absolutely. It's aliens for me just because it's Got them. This so we have an ongoing thing of, like, alien versus aliens Yes. And, like, I prefer alien, but that doesn't mean I don't think aliens is a great movie. I know.

But I just need I gotta debate harder. We Are you trying to do a gotcha moment? Like Yeah. Mo Collins is the actor. Joan.

Yeah. Joan Car Calamezzo. Melinda's like just like, do you know who we're talking about? We do. Okay.

Good. We do. A gem. Gotcha. She is ever I don't think she ever said she was.

I I watched the episode recently where she's got back from a booze cruise and she has Ron Swanson on there and she passes out and that she's like planking. She's like it cuts to her like planking on three chairs. Yes. It's like she's passed in all these different positions. It's just like brilliant comedic physical work.

What else are you watching? That's a great yeah. See, what are we watching? Yay. I saw Dial of Destiny.

Oh, okay. Indiana Jones in theater. Okay. Good. Yeah.

I'm not gonna say anything because you haven't seen it yet. Right? I have not. Yeah. I'm not gonna give any spoilers, but as everyone on this podcast knows, I love that franchise.

It's my favorite franchise and I, I enjoyed it. Okay. That's as that's as much as I'm gonna say. I'm not gonna go further. Last time we talked about what we were watching, I went I saw The Flash.

I was very So I heard. Yeah. Sorry. I was just very passionate. Did he say Flash?

So I'm not gonna I'm not gonna do that. I'm not gonna gush. I'm not gonna So a connection, Sasha who is in that movie Oh, yeah. She was on Y and R before she got that role. Oh, wow.

Oh, wow. Yep. Yep. She's the bright spot of that to me because I was like, ah, there she is. She was she was great.

Yeah. I have that symbol tattooed on my body. I do not wanna see that movie. I don't think I can handle it. It's like watching the remake of why I can't jump.

I can't handle it. But here's a question. Will you watch it with me when it's out on digital and we can get really high? Wait. We're getting but we're getting high.

So high. Yeah. Great. I'm in. Melinda, what is it?

Water the flash down? I need to know. I'm just like, I need for science. The CG slows him down. Yes.

The CG is the I'm not gonna do it. I'm not gonna do it. He came so close. I'm I'm so sorry. The I bet you very well.

You reopened you reopened the box today And there was box here. By sending me a clip from I sure did. From it. I couldn't imagine it was as bad as you thought. It was really hard to be like, wow, he's really upset.

And then I saw forty five seconds of the movie and almost had a physical reaction, like a negative You saw it? Upset. Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah?

Melinda, what else are you watching? What am I watching? I am watching The Sopranos for the first time. Amazing. I am midway through season three.

And honestly, I am very much appreciating that I haven't seen it up until this point. Because I think if I would have seen it when I was younger, I wouldn't have loved it as much as I do now. It's a genuinely funny show. I haven't seen it. I would highly recommend it.

Like, the so because I hadn't seen it when James Gandolfini passed away, everybody was big sad. And I was I didn't quite get, like, obviously sad because he died. Yeah. But, like, upon watching the show, I'm like, oh, fuck. There are just random moments where I'll go, oh, fuck.

He's dead. Like, it's just a real bummer. He was He's so talented. Alright, Pete. Yeah.

Genuinely, what a talent man. Yeah. But it's so good. It is surprisingly funny at moments. Real good.

Would highly recommend. It's on my list. It's just one of those things that feels like a big it's a big thing to take on. Yeah. I have a question for both of you.

Mhmm. Do you know the ending of of the show? Yeah. Yeah. Do you feel, Melinda, as you're watching it now, like like you're building to a crescendo?

Or I think the and this isn't giving anything away. I hope now you're viewing me. Oops. No. I think that the the conceit of that show, especially while it was airing because I yes.

You understand that, like, shows have seasons and seasons have a specific number of episodes, but I think the ending of that show seeks to tell you that it could have ended at any time for Tony. I love that take. And, also, like, it's kind of the reminder, like, quesera, sura. You don't really have a lot of control. Whatever will be will any movies or anything more of that we can do.

Kick. So, like, I, caught up with the rest of the world and, watched Succession. I started that a couple week I I watched season one. Yeah. Sorry sorry, Gus.

We are pouring wine, and Matt Fosca isn't here to tell us if it's crap or not. This is this is a good pinot grige. It's criterion pinot grige. Criterion collection. And, you know, that collection could have more movies in it.

You never know. What? Movies? The the fast food chain from the Kevin Smith Askewiverse? I was thinking Moobie the isn't there, an app called Moobie?

Probably. Welcome to Moobie. If not, you should buy it right now. Just think I bought dallascowboys.com. I watched the first season of Succession very recently for the first time.

Who's, who's your favorite character? Tom. Fuck off. Interesting. That was Brian Cox.

Was that not a good Brian Cox? I think my favorite character is Tom because I think I think Matthew McFadden's doing really great work. And, like, he's he's, like, bumbling and and, like, dumb and, like, but, like, kind of a lovable way. I mean, I guess it's between Tom and Greg. I think Greg I was explaining this to my wife.

This could become a succession podcast. Explanation, baby. Is an excellent writer's device. I think when you come up with the concept for the show, I think you have to have Greg especially from the top. Yeah.

Otherwise, there's no I don't connect to anybody at the beginning. Legitimately so different. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I wonder if that's why I couldn't get on board. Like, I watched, like, three episodes and, like, did It took me a while. And I've I've pushed through on Breaking Bad. I've pushed through on Mad Men. I've pushed through on some shows where it's, like and it's been way way worth it, like the shows I just mentioned.

But Succession, I feel like I gotta jump back on and push through. So if I if I may not re pitch it You may. But Succession Succession is just the darkest version of Arrested Development. That is the greatest sell of all time. That is the greatest sell.

I And you're not wrong. Ever. I mean, it's it's legitimately, like, it's that's what it kept here. Here's my social security number. Here is my insurance information.

Just take it. What yeah. For me, like, sold. What brought me in after because I watched the first episode three times, I think Okay. Over the course of several years or whatever.

What finally got me in was really connecting the Shakespeare dots because I come from a Shakespeare background and I I done a lot of Shakespeare. I've read a lot of Shakespeare. Interesting. And finding there is a direct comp to Shakespeare with these scenes. Yeah.

And that to me was my sort of, like, in as to why I can watch terrible people do do terrible things. Yeah. Shakespeare is like the thing from Last Action Hero that they do with Arnold Schwarzenegger where he, like, throws the skull. Yeah. This summer.

Yeah. That's that's Shakespeare for dummies. Stay thy hand face. Actually, no Shakespeare for dummies is a movie that's fail. Oh, okay.

I think I get it, though. Yeah. I I do know what you're talking about. Tell us what you're watching, Paul. Yeah.

Okay. As you might already know, based on what I just said, I just watched rewatched the, 1986 film The Wraith with Charlie Sheen, the smartest movie ever for smart people. Paul doesn't value his time. We've gotten we've we've expressed that before just so just so you're on the same page as everybody else. Paul doesn't value his time at all.

Listen. I bought MoneyPlane. I spent real American dollars on MoneyPlane, and I watch it frequently. I I spent real American dollars on many, and I never ever have seen the entire movie. Never.

I've purchased two I've purchased two movies on, like, Amazon, like, Amazon. Oh, please. Yes. Money played and Beau is Afraid. Those are two genders.

Wow. Wow. I have not I have not seen Beau is Afraid. I have read a very great review on Letterboxd of Beau is afraid. It's I I'm curious this to Even with that.

There you go. I'm gonna It's a good it's an interesting movie to talk about. I'll put it that way. I loved it, but it's This review was basically like Bo or or or Ari Ari, like, call me. I was like, I know several Dominican women involved in this church.

Like, please, we will all we will all talk to you. We can we can help you find religion. I was all it was all sarcastic. It was all But I want you to do something for me. Yeah.

Can you screen grab that at some point? And we will give credit to the writer on our future episode because I'm too interested in that. Yeah. The other thing was I just really wanted to watch some Sam Neil May Ho. And I'm talking about the dude here, Sam.

Elliot. Sam Neil. Sam Elliot. I we've we fuck up somebody's name in this show Sam. In this episode Yeah.

Program. We've done Woody Can I I don't even know who you are? Woody Harrelson, Vin Diesel, Val Kilmer. Val Diesel? Val Diesel.

So now But Elliott Big Lebowski. And that went from a four and a half to a five to me. It's just so incredibly fucking special. Yeah. And straight up, I've been to DudeFest Fest as Brent because I had a suit and a tie and glasses and had no problem acting very nervous.

And, yeah, I had a blast. Connected on our Big Lebowski love. I don't know. We should seriously sit down and watch it sometime together. Me, like, in high school, Big Lebowski was a big Lebowski.

Yeah. For me, just like Jeffrey Lebowski, the millionaire. I I like it, like, just fed my soul, and I don't know. And I, like yeah. To this day, I'm a huge Lebowski head.

It's great. Interesting. It's really lovely. I love it. I love the movie.

The the visual joke of him of the dude nailing the floorboard Yeah. Down in the chair, and then it just dropping, and Jeff Bridges' face is just unbeatable. But also, I love that Sam Elliott performance as the cowboy or whatever. Every performance in that movie Narration style. Every side character is so well defined and weird.

Like, his his the the the manager of his building Yes. From the beginning. Oh, it's I finished my cycle. My dance quartet. My dance quartet.

My cycle. If you could come and, like, give me notes. Yeah. I'll be in the And then pause and then pause and he says, oh, and dude, it's already the tenth. Far out, man.

Oh. Alright. You can just slip it right under my door. Oh, right. Yeah.

He gives him the thumbs up. Okay, Monty. Yeah. And then TV wise, I have been watching Fatal Attraction on Paramount Plus. I have really been enjoying it.

I know someone who worked on that. Oh, same. I can't say. Small world. Can't say.

Yeah. Maybe not the same person. Who knows? But we both know someone. Maybe it is the same someone.

Maybe it's not. Yeah. It's hard to say. But I believe because of the WGA, I cannot say. It's the same person.

Yeah. Of course it is. Yeah. It's really, really great. Talk directly into the microphone.

Just a little bit more. I'm wired. Right? And I lean I lean away to breathe. I just I just If you get that, you're at least as old as me, which is 66 years old.

Oh. It's really great because you get bits of story that are told from one perspective then the next and the next. And it's, essentially like the Michael Gallagher, David Gallagher, whatever character, the Michael Douglas Uh-huh. From the movie. It's Josh Jackson.

And yeah. And the third party, the Glenn Close character. And you get a lot of their perspective on things. And it, like, it paints a really cool picture. It's been really fun.

I like it. Josh Jackson and, what's her name? Amanda Pete. Lizzy Caplan. Lizzy Caplan.

I love a Lizzy Caplan. Sure do. We all we all do, I think. Yeah. I think I think she crosses all boundaries.

Oh, man. What the hell does that mean? Well, that was an inside thought. And it came out. That's not getting cut.

We are not discussing it. It's okay. She does for me too. It's fine. She's That's what I'm saying.

Honestly. She's she's across the board. She's Her and Amanda Pete. Both gorgeous, like, talented, funny, capable, like, watch them in just about anything and have a great day. No.

Casey, I'm iffy about. Woah. I loved Fringe. Watch it. I loved Fringe when it was on.

K. Fine. I think he's a dude. I think he's a dude. I don't know what that means.

Don't worry. He's a dude. I do like in the previews for that show though that he The check clears. Tries to have the Michael Douglas hair. Oh, they do a fairly decent job, like, aging him up and down because it takes place in different, eras kind of across fifteen years.

Should we talk about this movie? We can. This movie. Let's do the fact sheet. Let's do it.

What is it? Headers? Yeah. Heathers. It's about searching for the greatest Heath bar.

Oh, I watched The Perfect Top Secret. This was about a soccer league that only hit the ball with their head. That sounds good. I watched Heathering Heights. I fucking We all watched different movies.

Mine was a BBC documentary. Mine was nope. I'm not gonna be that quick right now. I'm like ready to talk about this movie. Okay.

Let's do it. And I also spilled wine so I'm like anxious. Spill the rest of the wine I'm drinking? Not all of it. No.

Okay. I would have been much more upset. Come on now. Hey, now. Hey, now.

Hey, now. Pay attention now. So Okay. What is everybody's history with this? Especially, like, Melinda, what is your history?

With the movie Heathers. With the movie Heathers. And before the last time you watched it this morning, last night, whatever it is, what would you have rated it before you rewatched it? Don't tell us that yet. We'll get there.

Yeah. Yeah. But what would it have been a month ago, a year ago, whatever? Thank god I've had wine. No.

No. So Social lubricant. I can't understand this guy. No. No.

So, when it came to this movie because I wanted to pick a movie I hadn't seen in a long time. So I wanted to give myself, like, an appropriate distance. Yeah. And in my mind, I had flashes of this movie and remembered watching it when I was, like, 10, 11. And earlier today so I thought.

Earlier today, I called my mom, just to, like, confirm the timeline because I texted her and I was like, I watched it this morning just to like have it fresh. And I texted my mom and I was like, how did I end up watching this at ten? Yeah. That's yeah. She called me and she goes, you aren't ten.

You were like four. Oh. Oh. You're like uncovering some pain. So, I thought I was gonna one up you when I was gonna say nine and you just knocked it out of the park.

No. I was attempting to, like, pick appropriately, and this is just this is And that was the last time you saw it? No. So, the last time I saw it was probably when I was, like, 11 or 12. Okay.

Wow. But I first watched it per my mother's history Which is when I was when I was like three to four because it was a movie that she loved and she assumed that I was a dumb sponge of a child. So like it would just like it would I wouldn't remember anything. Yeah. Until she started like we were around town or out and I would just be like Heather.

Like I would turn to somebody and just like just fucking say lines for the movie. It's affordable. Yes. Luckily as a four year old I did not say fuck me gently with a chainsaw. That was reserved for 11 year old me.

Very different. Different times. Now Mature. Woah. Mature.

But I was very like a it was one of the few movies I would fall asleep to. Oh my god. I'm so sorry this is the first time you're dating. I promise that this is just the first time. Some weird ass movies.

I fall asleep to three kings all the time. So don't, you know Oh, woah. Yeah. It's okay. I would watch it then, and then we had it on VHS.

So I was I was born in 1990, and we had it on VHS, and I would constantly rewatch it. 1990? Eighteen '90. That was when I was born too. I'm Crazy.

These are vampires. Us and us and Keanu, man. We're proud of them. Doreen Gray. Don't look at it.

This movie was just around when I was very young. And then after the age of like 11 or 12, I just didn't come into I think like once DVDs started, you know, being a thing and we didn't have it on DVD, I just didn't watch it ever again. Sure. There are parts of this that like are probably wedged somewhere deep deep inside me. Yeah.

Yeah. Like there were certain lines that I was like, I have a aversion to boiler rooms now so like this probably won't explain. No. I'm kidding. But like it's like, it's just really interesting.

My mom was, was big on the fact that I was particularly really in love with Winona Ryder. Winona Ryder. Well, yeah. I mean Winona Ryder's character. Beautiful.

Yes. And so And so cool. And different from, like, everyone else who's got it. So I'm not trying to steal thunder here because Ben's gonna maybe mention this again later, which is should be mentioned several times. Mhmm.

I at the time of shooting, unless my math is wrong, this is this person is 17 years old. Yeah. Wow. Oh my god. Yeah.

Wow. Yeah. Like, incredible on so many levels at any age, but massive amounts of credit to a 17 year old being able to Perform at that level. Do this. Yeah.

She also she also has always performed at, like, she seems older. She's, like Yeah. Characters always have this it's like in Beetlejuice or in this, like, they always seem, like, older and more experienced. Oh, oh, worldly or something like that. Like, learned Old soul is a learned learned learned as someone who has childhood trauma.

Learned? As someone who desperately wanted to be an adult. Just Ben, shut up. We're talking. Oh, the adults.

The adults are talking. Shut up. That was, that was, like, my last experience with this movie. So because of that, because it had literally been so long Yeah. I didn't really have a lot of fully like, four year old me was, like, no Ebert.

So I, you know, I I was going with three out of five Heathers. Like, that's that's where I comfortably sat before viewing it again. But don't tell us your new view. No. No.

No. But that's that's where I'm You came so from remembering, you were at three. Yes. The ultimate Heather. You are the ultimate.

The ultimate Heather. Absolutely. I'm the bottom Heather. I felt like I felt like all three of them would just torn Heather. Heather.

Heather. Heather. Yeah. Mega Heather. Voltron.

They're all I feel like you needed two more Avengers. Like a Mega Heather. That's true. Yeah. And one very big scrunchie.

It it is funny you mentioned that though. I rewatched the, animated Transformers the movie from the eighties recently. And wow, just like such a beautiful freaking movie. And also, Leonard Nimoy is a bad guy and great. Was that also Orson Welles last name?

Yeah. Yeah. Orson Welles last name. Judd Nelson? Yeah.

Don't fuck around. That was one of the few movies I used to put on the TV at Hollywood Video. I did that too. Should we shake hands? I got in trouble because the word shit isn't it.

Is it a PG movie? Complained. Is it? It is, but it does have the word shit. Then I definitely was breaking the rules because I think we were only supposed to play Genie.

Jeez. But I played that and Nightmare Before Christmas, like, regularly. Yeah. Never never got called out for Nightmare Before Christmas or Home Alone. Several things.

Interesting. Yeah. Which is Which is we are willing to, like, gloss over. When we look back on holiday four year old exposed to Heathers. My my manager at Hollywood Video, when we would do overnight inventories, which would be, like, from midnight till 8AM Yep.

Would play, Pink Floyd's The Wall on repeat. That's disturbing. It was like being in Clockwork Orange. It was like it was like, what are we doing? Yeah.

Like, eyelets held open, some sort of She was crazy. Communist, something. She was also, like, she would put uber conservative, like, the, like, super right wing propaganda movies, on Triumph of the will? New release. Well, no.

Not that. But when you played it to the wall, it they've synced it up together? Yeah. Yeah. No.

She's like the, like, the George Bush, like, Faith movies. Oh, that's a home run. She would put on the new release wall, and I every time I went to check on the new release wall, I turned them around. Little Kirk Cameron? Yeah.

I would always turn them around, and then I always remember turning them back. And I'm like, you're a fucking psycho. Yeah. Like, father likes that. I'm just insane.

Kirk Cameron. You or me? Me or you? First experience. Oh.

Who goes first? Should we flip a coin? No. I have you you've seen the movie previously to this? Interesting.

No. This is my first time viewing it. So now I trapped him into saying his first. Sure. I'll just tell you why.

I had thought I had seen it because when I was in college, I was in a, film. Nightmare in Elm Street movies? Well, yeah. Boiler Rooms. Yeah.

A lot of things. I was in a film class where we had to take a a scene from a previously made movie and remake it in a different genre. Oh, cool. Yeah. And one of the groups in my class did a scene from Heather's.

And it was the scene Woah. It was the scene where they get the decide if they're gonna give her poison or orange juice and milk. And I'd see so I'd seen that scene and I'd seen the recreation of the scene. And for some reason in my head, I conflated it and feels like, oh, I've seen this movie. And then when I started the movie, I'm like, wait a minute.

No. I've definitely never seen this entire movie. So that's why I thought I had. This is my first time. Good for you.

I can't wait to hear how your first time went. Great. Yeah. You were a virgin. Well, you French kissed Al.

What's his name? Fast and fast and awkward. Fast and awkward. This is my seventh or eighth experience with this. Similar to Melinda, I saw this way too young.

I was, like, nine years old. This was a staple for my mom, a friend of my mom's who was my, quote, unquote, aunt. Ben knows a little about this. Melinda, I think you know a little about this. Quote, unquote, aunts, by the way.

Shout out to a quote, unquote uncle slash funcle. Yeah. Aunties represent. Yeah. Yeah.

I was exposed to this way too young. And before this, around your same age, Melinda, I was, like, five years old when a friend of my family was like, you have to stay up and watch Nightmare on Elm Street the dream child with me. Oh. I can't watch it by myself. It's and I was clutching a pillow and afraid of Freddy Krueger until like, desperately afraid until I was, like, 13.

Very understandable. And watching this movie when I was nine gave me feelings about that. And I did not really remember it until sitting and really watching it this time how many parallels there are to Nightmare on Elm Street. And there's a dream sequence in this movie that I remember was the thing that I thought at some point when I was nine, is this something to do with Nightmare on Elm Street? And it's the Heather Duke dream funeral Oh, sure.

Where everyone's wearing three d glasses and so forth. And everything's neon lit, and everything looks kind of like Knight Rendell's dream master, which were probably being shot around the same time or whatever parallel development. I take a lot away from this movie. There's some PTSD involved with it, whatnot. Four slushies.

Four slushies. It was four slushies for me until my reviewing last night and this morning. You'd watch it twice? You're damn right I did. Yeah.

This is the second time. Paul Paul does this because he forgets. No. You wanted to. Correct.

Okay. I I have strong feelings. I have a lot to say. We may be doing this for a while. Yeah.

And I wanted to come in with everything ready to go. I wanted my stick them on my gloves and the whole thing. I wanted the right bat. I'm ready to talk about this. I will say the one thing that I forgot to mention was my quote like, from my mother quote today.

She told me that Heathers was my Rocky Horror music, like, Rocky Horror. I get that. Like, that was what the Interesting. Thing that I was, like, exposed to too young, and yet I walked around, like, parroting most of it. It it is something that is, like, offbeat or different or a little bit lesser known or for people in certain lanes or what it's very specific.

Well, I think it's, like I don't wanna move into the having seen it it part yet. Like, how I feel about it now. No. Please don't. We'll get there.

Yeah. We're gonna get there. Gonna say some numbers real quick. Oh, yes. Yes.

Yes. I'll do that. Facts and such. Hey. We watched Heathers.

That's when the podcast is yeah. It sure is. Yeah. New World Pictures. By the way, I see the New World Pictures logo, and I'm like a diamond in a snowstorm.

I'm so sorry, everybody. It's the compass near north, the whole deal. I love seeing that logo. You get hard. And something called Cinemark.

Don't be gross. Sorry. Speaking euphemisms, please. Oh, you get Really not clever ones. Okay.

This is really weird. I see it as 1988 in places and '89 in places. Apparently, Sundance, January eighty nine, was the big major whatever. I guess it must have been somewhere in '88. Who knows?

But it is an r rated film for a good reason, and it's an hour and forty three minutes. Budget on this film at the time, $3,000,000. The adjusted budget is 7.7. That's so cheap. Yeah.

Damn. Are you kidding me? Maximizing every dollar. Opening weekend was 04/02/1989, apparently, for National. It made $177,000.

Adjusted, that is $455,000. It's like nothing. Wow. Pretty much. Final gross in North America is 1,100,000.0.

2 point 8 is the adjusted. This was a cult following later, for sure. I I mean, there's a musical. There's a Yeah. There's a there's a series on peacock.

Yeah. Yeah. I totally forgot about that until today. Yeah. Yeah.

And the global number was 1,160,000.00. That is 2.98 adjusted. The other releases this weekend in the top five were Rain Man, Fletch Lives, The Rescuers, the rerelease, Lean On Me, and Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure. All movies with a very different tone and perspective than the movie that we watched. Films of note from this year.

Twins. Nice. Yeah. Mhmm. And your brother.

Troop Beverly Hills, the unquestionable, amazing, wonderful Shelley Long film that everyone should enjoy. Honey, I Shrunk the Kids, Ghostbusters. Two. I did the peace sign for you, everybody. You did.

Parenthood, When Harry Met Sally, the Naked Gun from the files of Police Squad. Uncle Buck, don't go in there with that hat. They'll kill you. Mhmm. The Burbs.

Great movie. Great dark comedy. And now I'm talking about the dude here, Meho. Little dude named Sam Elliott and the BAFTA and Oscar winner for best picture, Roadhouse. Roadhouse.

That movie touches your mind. History. I will kill you. Everyone, feelings on Roadhouse, do we'll just do a thumbs up, thumbs down. Everybody thumbs up enthusiastically.

Yeah. Because we're smart. This podcast is for smart people. Smart. We're smart.

We're smart. You gotta get out of here, mijo. Top five films this year domestically. Batman? Yeah.

Batman? Bruce Batman. Bruce Batman. Oh. We just got pretty nuts.

We're getting nuts. Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade. Ben, don't cry, please. I suddenly remember my Charlemagne. Let you always be the rocks and the trees and the birds in the sky.

I'm gonna buy that Lego set. The the one with the plate. I want it so bad. It's $35 on Indiana. Indiana.

So good. Let it go. Great film. Sorry. Sorry.

Let it go. Lethal weapon two, the best lethal weapon. Come on. Oh, Moinda disagree. No.

No. I said, mhmm. Oh. No. I agree.

I wasn't looking. I just heard a noise and assumed. I just always wanna, like, mix it up. I think that's true. I'm not gonna fight you on this.

Oh, good. Good. Okay. Rain Man, Honey, I Shrunk the Kids, Heather's finished outside of the top 200. Yeah.

I mean, that makes sense. It's a cult movie. It's, you know, like that those movies don't get traction till later. Mhmm. It has aged in a way.

It will yep. It has aged in a way. In a way. Letterboxed average here, which also says 88. Three point eight, one of the higher ratings we've had here.

My letterboxed handle is at paul acts badly. Mine is at run b m c. Mine doesn't exist. I'm so sorry. Nice.

No. Please don't. We always just wanna lob it up if possible. Paul to see what dumb movies he watches at 2AM. Listen.

I appreciate people who have them. I just don't think anybody cares how I feel about movies. Oh, I know nobody cares about how I feel about them. I love being a guest on a movie podcast, by the way. We're just reading each other's.

More often than not. Yeah. I went to a deep dive about the wraith after I rewatched it and was like, cool car. Charlie Sheen. Yeah.

Sherilyn Fenn. When you said my original When you said original crush, Sherilyn Finn, as someone I guess, I was thinking of my weird thing, and I was like, my weird thing my weird thing? Well, you're talking about, like, Heather's being, like, the weird The weird thing. For me in high school, it was Twin Peaks. Oh, right.

And so, like, nobody in my high school was watching Twin Peaks. I was fucking weird about it. And Sherilyn Finn was, like, what a big crush. Goddess. Oh my gosh.

Goddess. So yeah. Anyway, Ebert gave this thumb up. His butt? He gave it a thumb up his butt.

Two and a half up there. Thumb up. Not quite four, but was on the way. This was pre Sysco. Or Sysco didn't care to watch it or it wasn't a big enough movie for it to be on their program.

Gotcha. But it is for this program Pillow. Rotten Tomatoes, 93%. Wow. Oh.

Metacritic, 72, which is pretty damn good for Metacritic. Amazon, four point seven out of five. IMDB, seven point two out of 10. Wow. I'm gonna talk about people.

Yeah. Don't talk about people. You like people? People talking about people. People talking about people.

Talking about people. Jazz plus jazz equals jazz. Director was Michael Lehman or Lehman? Lehman? Lehman?

Lehman? Lehman? Lehman or Lehman? Sure. Hudson Hawk, Airheads, forty Days and forty Nights.

I kinda like that movie. I do too actually. I That's a that's a good Harrison Ford animation. That was a good woah. No.

You're thinking of six Days and Seven Nights. Oh, forty Days and forty Nights, Josh Hartnett? Yep. And, the pinnacle of Shannon Sossaman? That's right.

That's the movie where he decides to be be celibate for Lent. For Lent. I think you're both thinking of eight crazy nights. Oh, shit. She's right.

Yes. Eight? Yeah. With the Crazy nights. He's gonna be a sucker player.

He is. Get out of there. You look like a damn fool. Writer was Daniel Waters, the adventures of Ford Farlane, Batman Returns. Woah.

Woah. Sorry. Batman Robert England. Shut up. Batman shut up.

Batman returns and demolition man, which we've talked about on this on this side. Domino man. Director of photography was Francis Kelly, New Jack City, Wayne's World two. Party time. She's All That, which they made into He's All That, and that was really bad.

I don't understand what you said, and I refuse to acknowledge it. Music was David Newman, who we've talked about because he did The Phantom. And Galaxy Quest. And Galaxy Quest. Is he the is he now taking the the most, of a composer that we've talked about?

I believe so. I'm so sorry for a moment. I imagined Randy Newman scoring Heather's and it was really good. Heather wants to go and dance. School.

Still wanna do it. Heather be my friend. Yeah. We should have trigger warnings for a lot of shit in this movie. Sorry.

He's just a giant fan. As someone who's only seen it for the first time in 2023. I knew it was anyway. Yeah. The, Bill and Ted's Excellent Venture and the Danny DeVito filmography, David Newman did that.

Producers, Denise DeNova who did James and Night Peach, love that movie. Little Women from 2019, Ed Wood, love that movie. And Christopher Webster who did Hellraiser one and two, great. And The Chill Factor. Not the Skete Ulrich one.

No Koopa. Winona Forever. No, sorry. Winona Ryder. I was thinking of Johnny Depp's tattoo.

My bad. You know that? I always am. Did you know that? That's all I think about.

When they did he got a tattoo when they were dating that said Winona forever, and then he had a after they got broken up, he went over it and it just made it wino forever, which is really, really, really bad when you consider where he's gotten to. Oh, hardly seen this as someone on my third glass of wine. How tasteful. How really, quite tasteful. As someone who grew up loving Johnny Depp, my heart breaks, but I I understand.

She's 17 at the time of filming. She played Veronica Sawyer, Beetlejuice, Edward Scissorhands, and Little Women from '94. So many Little Women. Christian Jack Slater doing his Jack Slater. Doing his best, Jack Nicholson all the time.

Slash Arnold Schwarzenegger. Jack Slater. He was 19 at the time of filming. He plays John Dean JD, Pump of the Volume, Broken Arrow, Star Trek six the undiscovered country. Tiny part.

Weird choice. Weird choice in love but who could it? Sure. But like you didn't include bad romance. Or true romance.

That's what I meant. I wasn't Wow. You've got Gaga on the brain. He was a non Gaga. I'm a little monster.

I wanna poke your face if you don't calm down. Oh my god. You're flirting. Shannon door Shannon Doherty, Heather Duke, Shahan from Mallrats, which I grew up watching and loved, and charmed, and Beverly Hills Nine Zero Two One o. That's on TV, which Paul has put here as in case any of us are fucking idiots.

It's Anne Falk, Heather McNamara, Less Than Zero, Say Anything, Suicide Kings, Kim Walker, RIP, Heather Chandler, Deadly Weapon, Nervous Alternate title for this movie. Sure. Penelope Milford who played Pauline Fleming, Coming Home, Man on a Swing, Valentino. I don't know any of these movies. Glenn Shattuck's.

Oh, God. Glenn Shattuck's, I love him. RIP. Father Ripper, Sleepwalker's Demolition Man, Beeljuce as Otto. I love Otho.

Otho. I love him so much in that movie. Yeah. He's one of the really fun character actors. He's great.

I watched that for the first time, like, almost a month ago. Yes. And? Lovely. Wild and wild.

It is a really special thing. It that was a movie that I've seen I've seen that movie so many times. I used to make my grandma watch that movie at night before bed every night. Oh, that was your weird movie. I guess it was because I was because I was like I was like very young.

Yeah. I saw that movie. I just remember watching and being like, oh, this is an original thing. Like, it just feels very you know what I mean? Yeah.

It's it's wacky in a good way. Nice fucking model. I I've never had a better time watching a movie that I maybe shouldn't have such a great time because it's also kind of terrifying Yeah. When you break down so much of it. Mhmm.

And it calls so much about, I don't know, new money people, gentrification people. Modern art. It's yeah. It's calling a lot in in in a great way. And everyone's solid in that movie.

And I'm worried about a sequel because they're doing it. That's true. But speaking of solid Yep. Let's keep going. I mean, oh, buddy.

John Engle, r I p. Principal Gowen. Death Becomes Her. Great movie. RoboCop two.

The Office. Who's Robert Dunder owner? Oh, yeah. He's the owner in micro throws out. That's right.

He needs help. No, he doesn't. Awards nominations. It was independent spirit awards. Actress, runner-up writer, and what explain what this means.

Writer, nominated for writer as well. Walter oh, yeah. Daniel Waters. And director. Lehman won.

Oh, look at that. And Sundance Film Festival Grand Jury Prize. Edgar Allen Poe awards for writing. Waters winner won the film won for the screenplay. Fun facts, writer Daniel Waters is the older brother of writer director Mark Waters who did Mean Girls.

That's Interesting. A very parallel movie. Yeah. Yeah. Yep.

That's really interesting. They just don't murder each other. Renata Ryder is the then agent Baker to decide the role of Veronica. Your career career will be over. And, I got autocorrected or whatnot.

Baked her to decline it. Oh, wow. Don't do this. If you do this, it's over, child. Interesting.

Denise de Nova said, I don't think Shannon Doherty. Really got what Heathers was and that worked for us. She made that character real when the cast viewed the film. Doherty ran out crying because she realized the film was a dark comedy and not a drama. Oh.

Oh, no. It's sad for her, but it makes sense because her character kind of is so understated compared to the rest of them. Mhmm. To the other Heathers. I think Heather McNamara is the most or no.

Wait. Which one's the tall one who calls into the radio show? She's the most relatable to me. Interesting. Alright.

Well, writer Daniel Waters wrote the script to this film while working at a video store, needing popcorn for dinner. Look at that. And listening to the wall over and over and over again. That would drive someone insane. He got written up for Transformers being on because it said shit.

Well, I also stole a bunch of movies from there, so that's the thing. Christian I got robbed at gunpoint every Maybe maybe it was me to steal those movies. It was not. I thought it was not. Christian Slater has stated that his performance was heavily inspired by Jack Nicholson.

No fuck. It can shit. Every fucking performance Christian Slater has ever done has been inspired by Jack Nicholson. And Holden Caulfield. Yeah.

That's what Finn Bartnikin did. For sure. Yeah. He claims that he wrote a letter to Nicholson asking him to watch the film but did not receive an answer. That doesn't surprise me in the movies.

Although set in Ohio, filming was done entirely in Los Angeles. Duh. You can tell. Over thirty two days in February of nineteen eighty eight. The various Heathers and Veronica are all partially based on the sister of writer Daniels water Daniel Waters.

There have been TV and stage musical spin offs of this film, the musical currently touring. And this is when we throw it to you to ask you what is the logline of this movie? And don't look at my paper. Okay. Okay.

If David Lynch directed a John Hughes movie. Wow. I don't think you need to say the logline. Wow. I hadn't thought about how accurate gravy.

That's incredibly accurate. I'm gonna watch Succession, and now I'm ready to triple down on we're gonna get into this. Well, the log line is at Westerberg High where clicks rule, jocks dominate, and all the popular girls are named Heather. It's going to take Veronica and a mysterious new kid to give teen angst a body count. Body count.

Body count. Iced Tea is gonna be really mad at me. You should not do that. Yeah. This episode is brought to you by iced tea.

Not not any nothing to do with the wrapper, just iced tea. Just delicious and In all its forms. Here's a weird tip. Yeah. Go half iced tea, half lemonade.

That's something I do that I came up with. You made that up? I did. Did you make that up while you were Paul Palmer. It's a Paul Palmer.

Mhmm. It's a Palmer. It's a Laura Paul Palmer. Laura Palmer. Brought to you by Sheryl and Fenn as iced tea.

Well, we're gonna take a break here because we have to we have to to third our iced tea sponsor Overlords. Yeah. And we'll be back in a second after they tell you to whatever they're gonna say. Mhmm. Refreshing.

Crisp. Crisp. Yum. Hey, Paul. It's me, your friend, and cohost of the hit podcast, The Review Review, now available everywhere you listen to podcasts.

Wow, Ben. Hi. Thanks for saying that. Otherwise, totally lost. Well, you are high.

I am high. I did I, smoked marijuana in your bathroom a moment ago. You did drugs. What what's the delicious and refreshing drink that you're sipping there? It's a Laura Palmer stirring iced tea.

Are you saying iced tea, like the actor slash rapper, or iced tea, our sponsor in Guiding Light? Yeah. Both? It's either or either. Frankly, it sounds like neither.

Neither. Nether? Nether Region? Nether. That said, this episode is brought to you by iced tea and the podcast you're now consuming, the Review Review podcast.

Follow us now at review x two podcast on Instagram. I'm on Letterboxd, and you can follow me at Paul acts badly. And I'm at Run BMC. Now back to the show or program. Either.

Either? And it was my iced tea with a little lemonade in it or some sort of sativa that's very dominant with citrus type flavors. It's hard to say. We're back. Like talking about this movie Yeah.

There are gonna be things that are hard to say. Do you like iced tea? I love iced tea. Yeah. What you mean?

And I was not paid at all to say that into his microphone. Say it say it better. I love iced tea. That's good. Okay.

Yeah. That was worth the money. Yeah. But wait, there's more. Oh.

Just trying to get you paid again. As someone who worked as a server in restaurants and especially worked lunches and brunches, iced tea was the bane of my existence. Oh, really? Why? Because it's what everyone fucking wanted all the time.

Did you so you had to brew it hot and then wait for it to So we the restaurant I worked at here in LA, we had to make the iced tea in the morning. Name redacted. Yeah. They don't exist anymore. COVID took care of it.

Permanently redacted. Yeah. Permanently redacted. Yeah. Especially when I cut all this useless bullshit.

But I then we had to brew our iced tea in the morning, and we always had to make so much. And then it was just a pain in the ass every time everyone wanted and then, like, refills because everybody finished it so fucking fast. And it was just such a pain in the ass for me. That's wild. Because it was one of the things where it doesn't come from the bar.

It comes from the servers. And every other drink, for the most part, came from the bar. Well, and it was like the I assume other than, like, water, soda water, probably the least expensive thing. Yeah. Super cheap.

But, like, you're used to refilling people's waters. I'm not I didn't I hated fucking having to refill everyone's goddamn iced tea. Wow. I'm so sorry iced tea that you sponsored this episode and now you're being besmirched by this ungrateful monster. I know.

It's it's the consumers, not the iced tea itself. The iced tea didn't do this. They didn't do this. The iced tea Okay. Big iced tea didn't do this.

Leave it to a writer to justify it for you. We are officially in the hands of big iced tea at this very moment. It's so fair. Big tea. Big tea's out there.

It's 04:00. Let's have a Lipton. Oh, it's suddenly 04:20. Brisk, baby. I'm feeling brisk.

Just like Snoop in the brisk commercial for now. Like it comes to the Marlboro and, like, a pair of series. Like, what do you what? Well, I like the Marlboro part. I haven't had a cigarette in so long.

It's been a while. It's been a while. Like, twenty years. Yeah. But it was probably a clove.

Let's be honest. I don't remember. So Gross. This movie starts in the garden where they're playing Woah. Croquet.

Croquet. How do we rate this movie now? Oh yeah. Let's do that. Let's do that.

Sorry. You are the guest. Please choose to choose what you like. Zwick Scoop. No.

So I okay. So I have I have a lot of complicated feelings about this movie because it I'm a big fan of dark comedies. So, like, After Hours is a big one for me. Big fan. Recently saw first time.

Loved it. Yeah. It's it's just I think that sometimes when things are taken to their extreme, there there are moments of darkness that are genuinely funny. I feel like I feel like some people now claim to like dark comedy, and it's just an excuse for them to say something offensive with and get away with it. And I feel like when dark comedy is done really right, you find yourself laughing despite yourself.

And kind you know, like, it's almost a little involuntary because it makes you confront stuff you believe or accept or whatever. There's like a relatability that most people feel. Or it's or it's it's a nerve. I think it's a it's a form of uncomfortability too. And this movie is plenty uncomfortable at times.

Yeah. So I for that, for what it tackled when it tackled it, do I think it could be released today? Probably not. I think the series is probably a good example of that because it did not last long and they kept the same writer. I have not seen it.

I just did a little, like, scribbly on it. Did it just, like, show up and fizzle? Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

So very flash in the pant type of situation. Or, I mean, maybe some people loved it. Who knows? Flash in the flash. Well, not the f word.

Don't bring it up. Don't do it. Iced tea save me. Bring me back iced tea. But after after watching it again, croquet mallets.

Okay. Which who which one of us would you like to go next? I would I wanna hear since it's your first time, I would love to hear your Oh, sure. Justification machine. Yeah.

I I knew what this movie was about, so I didn't come into it totally blind. And I recognized, like as I was watching it, I was recognizing its place in cinematic history as especially in cult classic cinematic history. Totally makes sense to me, especially with the time that it came out. Like, I'm taking in all of that. It was not I won't say a hard watch.

It wasn't a hard watch. I enjoyed it. I enjoyed watching it. And, but I I definitely didn't come away with it as, like, one of my new favorite movies. So I I I walked away with it, with, three and a half bottles of mineral water.

So it's fair. I love that that was the telltale sign of being Being gay. Like, oh, yeah. If you're in Ohio, you don't have a beer in your hand, mineral water. Mineral water.

It's funny how Christian Slater's character JD seems to know just how insanely simple, people are. Mhmm. Yeah. They have a tendency to just think very simply and similarly to each other in a lot of ways. Also, he pulls a gun on school property and isn't like a member of the house.

Why wasn't he expelled? Oh, that's because his dad's so rich and important. Also, you know, blanks. What? What?

Yeah. Right? The fact that also the fact that this is movie does have a flaw. Crazy. The fact that this predated stuff like Columbine and kind of Oh my god.

Like, everything down to the long trench coat and the being misunderstood and the writing stuff down almost manifesto style. Like, that's why knowing when it was made, not knowing what's to come Right. It makes you feel uncomfortable in a type of way that you can only feel uncomfortable about now. Exactly. That was my that was my biggest issue in this viewing was I was just like and especially now where it's like we have a school shooting every hour.

Oh, right. Right. So it was like, fuck, fuck, shit. I already I hate that you both are already making me feel shaken on my foundation a little bit. It's It's a good like, it does exactly what it's supposed to do.

Nobody knows how I feel yet. That's true. Sure. Go on. You're one you're one up to bat.

Slugger. This is a five slushy movie for me. Yay. This is my this is my top 40 all time Oh my god. Movies.

I think this movie is so insanely insanely brilliant, and I've mentioned a few times on this program. You have to be a little bit choosy about what you share with whom and why. Mhmm. And maybe that you might wanna be there with that person to have discussions like we're gonna have this evening. And I feel so strongly in what I took from my two two two two two viewings.

I had such a fucking amazing time watching this last night. I really dialed into it, and I was so concerned about the subject matter and some of the imagery and knowing what I know about basketball diaries and, Columbine as well as this, as well as the matrix, and all these things that tie in to then also what you said that, like, makes me be like, oh, man. Like, when I think of the modern world and where we are and It's really tough. It's tough. I mean, that's the thing.

Like I'm gonna try. I was talking to my brother today, and I I was kind of telling him where I was again, this is my first viewing. Mhmm. There is a place for it in cinematic history, which is why 100% I would recommend this movie. Yeah.

Like, without a doubt, like, definitely watch this movie. Just like I would recommend reading Huckleberry Finn. Do I think Huckleberry Finn is the best representation of race in America? One Hundred Percent sure. Bring up Samuel.

Is it the way that we need to teach the way we need to teach racism in America? No. But does it have a place to be taught and read by everybody in America? Yes. And so this is where I'm at with this movie.

I think the the the difficult thing about dark comedy is you run the risk of people taking it seriously. You run the risk of having the people who think it's a drama. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like, so there are because I think that this is stare like, not even stereotypes.

I would call them caricatures. Like, caricatures of high school angsty teenagers taken to the umpteenth degree. Mhmm. Like, it's mean girls but with, like, bloodlust. I Like Yeah.

You know? I have so many parallels comps that I like to say to this movie. Clueless, Drop Dead Gorgeous, Jawbreaker, Recess, The Ashleys, if anyone remembers, Mean Girls, obviously, Stranger Things Sure. Grosse Pointe Blank, Scream. I think Wes Craven I I think Daniel Waters, maybe maybe Michael Lehman saw Nightmare in Elm Street.

I think Wes Craven saw this. There's a point where Christian Slater pops in the window that feels very much like Billy Loomis in Scream. And he's a very, like, angsty, dark haired, like, it couldn't be the boyfriend. No one will suspect me. Like, that's kinda where he comes from.

Mhmm. And I think there are some parallels there. But there are so many things that I really love that I think, folks have written and or directed or collaborated on that saw this movie and said, there's so much substance here. And most recently, Do Revenge, if anybody has seen I have not yet. Revenge.

Do Revenge is, like, I believe it's on Netflix. I think it's a Netflix original movie. It is I think you're right. New Mean Girls, but it definitely pulls from so much nicer, to the, to the gay community than this movie is. But but at the same time, like, you also come from it's it's the time that this exists and also the time where you look at I I I literally feel like it took it looked at a John Hughes movie, which I love.

I fucking I love John Hughes movies. But on August 6, like, so many people. Well, like, it looked at a John Hughes movie and it said, well, what if we take all of this way too fucking seriously? Because I think that that same type of homophobia exists in, like, in almost any movie from the eighties that deals with high school because everybody was kind of afraid of they could yeah. That was the whole thing.

I don't think this movie I I didn't feel this movie was homophobic, and I could be exceptionally wrong. But all of the ugly disgusting simple people use ugly disgusting simple language. And even like, the cops when the two jocks are opposed to kill each other, they are so willing. It's so easy for them as, like To be like, oh. Perverts and basic white dudes to be like, yep.

This is what it is. Mineral water in a magazine. We're done. We did a great job. Must be that.

Like and it it and I think it's poking holes in it portrays small minded people, very clearly as small minded, and everything in this movie feels exceptionally intentional to me. Yeah. I mean I mean, I would also make the argument that, like, it's that even the smarter people in in the film are still susceptible to pitfalls like that. You know what I mean? Like even like like Jamie's obviously like a sociopath like who never got the attention from his father or from Yeah.

Or when his girlfriend like left him alone for too long or he didn't feel satisfied. Like, he it's that brand of, like, toxic masculinity or whatever. I think the homophobia in this movie is not, like It's par for the course. It's par yeah. It's the it's the time of the it's the time that this movie came out.

It's like but I I think, like, the idea that the the the the whole concept that they had to kill themselves because they were gay, that, like, is is a it's it's slight like, that that was a thing that was really brought up a lot and I think has continued to go through pop culture Mhmm. That I think that people in the in the LGBT community are very sick of. You know what I'm saying? I I I as one of them agreed. I Okay.

Yeah. I think I thank you, by the way. Oh, no worries. No. Thank you.

But it's it's one of those things the way that I perceive the movie is somebody who cannot relate. So how relevant is my opinion, whatever, but I really wanna fight for this movie. I feel like it is exceptionally intentional about making sure that it kind of portrays everybody as flawed and ugly, including our one hero, Winona Ryder, as a person who is not a hero and is exceptionally flawed and does really ugly, terrible things. But also, I just think it it it it does a really great job of portraying these very small minded cops, for instance, as we're as we're continuing to focus on this point of when the jocks are staged as if they killed each other, in some sort of, like, we can't be accepted for who we are situation, so we're gonna do a suicide pact. It does feel like they think they're gonna get away with it because it's easy because they know the cops will be like, yep.

That's what these people do. Whatever. And and they do not look good. The hardest I laughed in this movie was was his dad going, I love my dead gay son. That was, like, literally, it it genuinely was hit Like, that was a moment that I left.

In the uncomfortable way, I left way too early. I I I struggled with that moment for a couple reasons because the movie is so satirical and so dark and lays certain things on certain football helmets Exactly. Caskets. Yeah. Well, and, like, it's, like and I do agree with, like, this is the big sin of Winona Ryder and Christian Slater's.

They just fucking judge everybody. Right. Like, they suck just as bad as everyone else does. They're awful. Yeah.

No one really has a saving grace in this movie. I think, like, I I really don't. Winona Ryder tries to, like, bounce back, but it doesn't, like, she doesn't wash a slate clean. No. But she definitely, you know, she has a she has her Vader throwing the emperor in the into the like, she she Wow.

Good point. Sure. Like, she gets that moment where you're like, okay. There's a there's a there's a there's the sign that you wanna be better. Thank you.

Thank you for making me like this more again. Wow. She figures faltering. Well, I think she figures out that rage doesn't save you. Yeah.

Teenagers are mean and shitty, and she's better than that. You know what I mean? I well, and even I think that she I think that she initially feels like she's better than that or has evolved into this, like, other form and, like, Jadie kind of that re like, reinforces that or reinforces that in her. But there's a moment, I think, where he's, like, cleaning before they kill other Heather. Oh, okay.

Other other So many Heathers. Heather Heather, where they're cleaning the knife and he holds it out and she sees her reflection in it. And she's like, somebody else is just gonna take her place. It's not just me. It could be me.

It it could be me. Like, I could be the next person. Like, the fact that It was fear of of of living out her legacy. That's what she's supposed to do because she's a decent person. She's just flawed.

Right. And but, I mean, between that and, like, knowing that we are all a step like, anger doesn't solve the problem, but conformity doesn't solve the problem either. So you have to figure out shit for yourself. And I think that that's a really difficult a, that's a difficult line to cross and or, like, toe. And, b, that's a difficult point to put across in a movie, let alone a dark comedy.

I yeah. And I think especially in our culture now where we you know, especially in a post Columbine world, you know, where you're looking, you know, you're looking at these characters who in the beginning, you're like, oh, yeah. They have a point. Like, they have a point in the beginning where you're like, yeah. These people suck and they're awful to each other.

But their answer to it is not the answer. And I think that, like, we especially now in the world where it's like all school shooters feel that way of being ostracized and that everyone's assholes to them or bullied or whatever. And like it's just that to me, I totally understand. Like, it's a rec it's it's a it's a time capsule of a different time. But for someone watching it in 2023, it was just like a it was it was just it was a it was a tricky tricky for me.

The the idea or the trend of I I particularly I I hesitate to use the word enjoyed. I don't wanna say that. But, like, the trend of violence and hopping on the trend of violence where, like, the suicides initially are not suicides and then people just start capitalizing on it, like, whether it's a teacher who capitalizes on it or it's another student who thinks that it is Right. Is that so doing it. Yeah.

So it's What a crazy mirror on society. What? I mean, you're not wrong. That's it's totally doing that on purpose. And I'm not I'm not trying to say that I'm watching this movie and thinking it's supposed to be some sort of drama.

No. But I also I think that for the fact that it was able to do that when it specifically did it is a is a testament. But I also don't think that it's I'm not gonna make anyone watch it, if that makes sense. Sure. I think if somebody I would I would recommend it to someone.

Yeah. Go watch it. But at the same time, like, if you either don't feel like it's for you partway through or, like, don't like it, completely understandable. Yeah. It it knows what it is, and it tells you very, very quickly.

So if it's one of those things as as you just said, Melinda, like, if you spend twenty minutes and you're like, no. Thank you. But I also think this is something that, if I know somebody really well and, like, Ben, in your case, if you hadn't seen it, I'm gonna be straight up with you. If Melinda hadn't recommended this, I never would have recommended this movie to you because I feel like there's some things that you're saying that I would have anticipated Interesting. In terms of, the twenty twenty three view of it, which makes perfect sense.

I just, JD says something that really, really sticks with me, in a way. And, again, I hate almost to relate to him. But, he says seven schools, seven states, and the only thing that changes is my locker combination. Right. And it's one of those things, like, we're over thirty years removed from this movie.

And what has fully changed? This was a thing that we talked about when we we watched Tu Wong Fu in an episode, and it bummed us out, like, what has really changed. And that movie could have been a beautiful mirror on society moving forward, potentially. This movie is a stark reminder of how little I think we've moved forward and even, like, almost regressed. And it's really it's a hard pill to swallow, especially as I chose to swallow it twice.

There are there are blood. Very few people I would recommend this to, but there are people that I'm extremely close to, that I actually would recommend it to. It's like I've been very hesitant to, really push Ben to watch a movie called The Guest starring Dan Stevens that I really, really love. Mhmm. That Yep.

That has a lot of, like, problematic stuff like this movie, but, handles it in a way more, like, modern tense. And so I think it works, a little bit better and, in a way. But, this movie also, as we're about to speak about it, I promise you, in sequence is so fucking beautiful. It's well shot. It's so pretty.

Even just the beginning with the the white on red cursive and then the white on red bold titles. Mhmm. And outside feeling like outside when it when they want it to Mhmm. And almost feeling like where the fuck are we when they don't. It's really interesting how for a movie that spends well, this is the thing.

This is also why I feel like it like, no. It doesn't you it doesn't have a great, like, view of gay people or, like, a really good, like, commentary on gay people or whatever. It's very gay coded. Like, look at the colors you Totally. 100%.

Like, it's campus. Fuck. Yeah. For sure. I don't think I was gonna be looking for people.

Yeah. What? Brideshead Unlimited? Is that what it's called? Revisited.

Revisited. Brideshead I was thinking of that in the beginning with, like, the colors and the croquet and the green grass. Like like Yeah. I I I felt like it it I understand what you're saying. I think, again, I just read it differently.

But she said that maybe positive. No. No. I'm saying that. Yeah.

I know. It's interesting. There's some things that I'm probably missing because of my ignorance or because I'm like no. Because I've literally dropped a blanket to a degree of how I feel about this movie. I literally just said this is a top 40 for me.

Yeah. Yeah. And I've seen, like, 3,000 movies. This movie is amazing. It is hard for me to find movies with voice over or when I know outside is inside or things that, like, break reality.

And nothing about this movie ever really feels like reality. And to me, it's kind of even handed in saying, like, everybody sucks. But I think that's the point is that it's not supposed to I don't think it's supposed to feel it's an exaggeration on what is, which I would hope that three girls playing croquet in the backyard and matching, you know, in in clueless adjacent suits Yeah. Would would, like, kinda tip that hand a little bit. But at the same time, like, it feels in such a, like, wacky, very colorful, very camp world, it has real dark implications, real dark problems that it deals with.

Yeah. The way that it says fuck you to virtue signaling at every possible turn and opportunity is so fucking inspiring to me. I love it. Should we let's just talk through so the croquet game. Croquet, it's kind of a dream sequence.

Right? Because she's Yeah. Her hands. One owner rider gets hit in the head with a croquet ball. Yeah.

She's like the head in the ground, and then she then that starts the voice over of her saying And it works. Yeah. It does. The voice over of her And that's when we transition to her talking about writing in her diary, I think. In way too big a font.

That was my only problem. She goes through diaries fast. Yeah. Yeah. So large.

It's huge. It's so Who are you rating? My top secret, I have 30 diaries. If if only I filled my Per month. Blank moleskin books that I convince will heal me every time I buy them that quickly.

They look so nice. They look so nice. They do look they look very nice. They're finished so nicely. We get to the school, right, where we find out Africa's a party continent.

Right. Right. The fucking quotes in this movie are stellar. Again, ugly people say Oh, they're trying to get hurt. She's really good.

We learned that Veronica has, can can match Pynman shit very well. Yes. Yes. Everything in this movie is very intentional. The the ground is laid so beautifully.

They wanna make fun of this poor girl. Yeah. Martha. And, like, put a letter on her tray from some football dude. And we immediately understand that Winona Ryder's not really on board with this.

Like, I don't wanna do it. Yeah. Because she does it. She does. Yeah.

Because she's susceptible to peer pressure like Heather McNamara. Like, if if everybody walked off a bridge with you, yeah, probably. Yeah. Probably. And then the look on Winona Ryder's face like, oh, shit.

Maybe me too. And we see early, we see JD Christian Slater. We see him in the back of the cafeteria, like, watching. Just, you know, just kind of observing. Yes.

And Yeah. Kinda judging in his face. He see okay. I mean, that's what I took away. Like, he's watching and he's taking in what they're doing and, like, you can tell he's not on board.

Very like I said, very Holden Caulfield. The whole goddamn time. Yeah. I just a book I hate. Yes.

Same. So Oh, thank you. Wow. I think We're we're in the trifecta here. We're in the Illuminati.

I prefer, his son, Matt Salinger, in Captain America from 1990. We've talked about this. We have. I I think Christian Slater sees something in her, like, something that's similar. She she's reluctant to do what she's doing, the note thing.

He there's a knowing look. Like She does it. The fucked up fucked up thing is he and Winona Ryder, and then I guess Winona Ryder's parents at times, but they're like the grown ups. They're both just psychotic. Him kind of permanently all the way off the edge.

And her, just temporary insanity. But I also, like, I immediately get, like, the heartbreak kind of thing, like, with Betty, where I think we've all done that. Right? Where we've, like, outgrown friends or made new friends or whatever. She runs into Betty Yeah.

As her friend. And she still tries to chat with her. Still, like, tries to be decent, but also in that shitty popular way. In this way, it reminded me in Stranger Things of, Barbara. She sees Barbara.

Yeah. Poor Barb. Poor Barb. Poor Barb. Justice for Barb.

Yeah. Well, Well, I have an open door policy for assholes. That was quite funny. I I have so many quotes written down from this movie and maybe ones that, like, you wouldn't expect. I don't know.

But, I mean, we all love corn nuts. Right? And JD's workshop. Hold on. I'm so sorry.

I hate corn nuts. Cool. No. The quote, I'm not a big corn nuts actual ranch, duh. But not like, none at all.

Thank you. A slushy please. So very. Yes. Very cherry slushy, please very.

One time right before We sound like we're all having a stroke. I'm so sorry. No. Right before very eighties. Right before I did ski bus as a kid.

Okay. And you had to get up at, like, five in the morning and catch the bus at, like, six. The night before a ski bus, I ate so many ranch corn nuts that I threw up on the ski bus and they were all it was ranch Like Winona Ryder at the college party. And so then I I can no longer eat corn nuts. After dude, like that dude did something to her beer.

Right? Like, she smelled it and then poured it out the window. Oh, I didn't catch that. That makes sense though. Oh, yeah.

No. She drops a lighter in it, and it Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. And it flames. That's how she figures out there was something in it. Yep. Yeah.

But why would a date rape drug have flammable God only knows. Who knows? That guy didn't care. I think it was just alcohol. Maybe.

But that guy definitely yeah. It might have just been, like, one fifty one. Right? But the fact that she wasn't pictured drinking anything for the majority of the evening and Yeah. So that's sick.

Is The, the thing that I liked from that scene, it's almost like she got big blue here. Was it's so nice that I don't have to talk to a girl and ask her what her major is. Quiet. Quiet. Quiet.

Tell, like, tell, like, tell, like, tell, tell, tell, tell, tell, tell, tell, tell, tell, tell, tell, tell, tell, tell, tell, tell, tell, tell, tell, tell, tell, tell, tell, tell, tell, tell, tell, tell, tell, tell, tell, tell, tell, tell, tell, tell, tell, tell, tell Sexually perverse photography exhibits involving tennis rackets. That was hilarious. Oh, great. The beaver's home. When JD's dad comes home and it's like leave it to beaver.

I love it. I mean I'm I'm gonna be a a big a big dumpster about it because we mentioned Hallfield, like Call them. Call them. Hallfield. Oh, JD.

JD. That's why he's called JD. JD. You're totally right. Yeah.

I mean That's why he's That feels kinda correct. Yes. It is correct. Yeah. I agree.

Here's the other thing too. We never see JD fuck anybody. They don't hit him. They don't fuck. It's implied that they It's implied they did.

I feel like That night? We see them in bed naked at in post. Oh, after the naked croquette strip croquette. No. After the party, she goes and meets up with him and then they're like Yeah.

They play strip Oh, yeah. In her backyard? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. But that's that's right. I I feel like because Holden was so afraid of, like, any kind of intimacy at all. Right. So I kinda wondered about that, but that that is true.

I forgot about that moment. I and this does not like Catcher in the Rye. I don't feel like it's trying to pump up JD. No. No.

At the beginning, like, at all? I would say at the beginning, it is. It it it pitches him as the answer to her priorities. At the beginning, it pitches him as the anti hero Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. That we all need. He turns within, like, twenty or twenty five minutes. He turns pretty quick into the movie. I say he doesn't turn until he kills still into her.

I'd say he doesn't turn She's still into him. We don't turn on him till he oh, what have you done? If, if you're listening right now, you're not noticing that, sound paneling fell directly onto Paul. He's dead. Paul's Paul's dead.

We killed him. Or did he commit suicide? Oh, no. I'm not getting that out either. You're the last sponsored by JD's Funeral Hut.

I just Did he not endorse suicide no matter how many movies I've done on this podcast that are about suicide. Catcher in the Rye. We've done so many. This movie does not Okay. Be careful up there.

It's a it's a Catcher in the Rye. No one in no way shape or form do I feel like I want to root for Christian Slater after I'm through the first act of this film. I would agree I would agree with that. Yeah. That's true.

He I don't think he seems like trouble. I think when I first so upon first viewing those first twenty five minutes, I just thought he was kind of a know it all dick a little bit. Like Yes. That kind of thing. Tequila and my Bas Skaggs records.

I thought he was supposed to be the sort of cool. Right. But not cool. The anti cool Yeah. The Everything.

And he and he is that to to it's what he is to her. It's why she pulls Mhmm. It in his direction is because he's alternative to to the crowd. Never say never to high school, guys. She hasn't Yeah.

That's what they say. Yeah. I thought you were never gonna date high school guys again. Never say never. Yeah.

Great unofficial bond with because then they decide is it that night of the naked croquet where they decided they're going to because she gets in a fight with her. I gotta back up a a half a second. I'm so sorry. I love this first interaction with her parents so much. Oh, sure.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The first two inter I love every interaction with her parents, actually. Even when the mom says, like, you know why teenagers get pissed off?

Because you get treated like a human being and you don't like it. Mhmm. And it's like, oh, shit. Yeah. She's not a regular mom.

She's a cool mom. She's a cool mom. That's a really good Mean Girls call out. I love that. It's there were so many weird little parallels to that, miss Vivian.

Oh my god. So many. I mean, even the groups, by the way, in high school. By the way, what group were you in in high school? I mean, Ben, tell me.

Me? Yeah. Sure. I mean, I was a drama nerd. Okay.

But I was also in the, like, band band You're a creative guy. Weird. You're a creative kid. Yeah. But they're like, my my, like, friend group were a bunch of, like, musicians and stoners.

Great. That sounds like a great time. So I was also in drama. If you could pick now, what group would you be in? I don't give a fuck.

Oh, I'd love that answer. And what group are you in now? Same group? I'd probably still be a drama nerd. Yeah.

Yeah. Melinda, would you be so kind? Interesting. I think No. No.

No. This is a really cool question. So I I mean, I'm from a really small high school. I graduated in a class of, like, 87 people. Holy shit.

So listen. The groups we had a lot of Venn diagrams. So a lot of the football players were in band or a lot of the you know, like, it kinda we overlapped. But I was a weird little creative gal who watched anime and also had a crush on Ryan Styles because I watched Two's Line. Like Oh, wow.

Like like, ugh. Ryan Styles. That is such a specific lane. Specific crush. It's, showing my ass on a podcast.

Here we are. No. But, like, By the way, everyone, Melinda is showing her ass. If you're not, she's not showing her her Ryan Styles tattoo on her ass. It's stretched over time.

No. You never know because it's Ryan Styles. Exactly. So long. His shoes are also represented.

No. I'm so sorry. No. No. So I feel like I had I don't know.

I was also a weirdly, like, religious kid when I was younger, and I still attend church now, but in just a slightly different way. Like, my view on that has changed over the past couple years. So I think I would still be in that, like, weird creative space now, but I wouldn't be so apologetic about it. Cool. Okay.

Yeah. If that makes sense. Yeah. What about you? I've never I guess I was, like, kind of a preppy kid.

But also, like, I've never really fit in with any specific group. I hung out with drama kids. I hung out with basketball kids. Like, I don't know. I haven't I don't know about y'all, but, like, I haven't remained friends with many people from high school, like, two or three people.

Yeah. That's about it. I'm friends with a lot of people from high school. But none of like, only of you have really lasted. This is a conversation I had with my therapist today.

Wild. Go to the Snaps. Go to therapy. We'll we'll talk to you about it. Yeah.

Absolutely. We're again the Illuminati of therapy, of promoting therapy. But Go. I talked a lot about how I feel about it. My self esteem grew.

And I think it was because of my friend group. That's excellent. Yeah. Yeah. To kinda realize that also is Yeah.

Yeah. At whatever point. Coming out of junior high which is a nightmare. Can't imagine. No.

Weird high school stuff and people feeling like they don't fit in. The cut from the bulimia moment to the garbage is incredible, and that was an uncomfortable laugh for me. Yep. Yeah. Where Yes.

That was the main thing for me with this movie was, like, about, like, body image and bulimia and anorexia and things like that. That was the main problematic thing. Again, that is treated lightly. That feels like maybe at times a little haphazard. I agree.

But, again, I just think it's so insanely even handed. And that cut is amazing. Oh, yeah. And let's see let's see today's lunch. No.

I love when I think things like that aren't treated as throwaways when you involve more than one aspect of production. So if something is just written, it's kinda like, it's just written. But if it is written and shown in a in an interesting way that involve more than you know what I mean? I feel like it at least some thought went into it. Even if it's mean spirited, there is some thought there.

Sure. And it's it's I think it's used to kinda some parts of this movie It's intentional. Some parts of this movie actively felt like picking it a scab. Like it's like it's a fair you know what I mean? Like Yeah.

It's it's completely Yes. I do. It's there. I was look. I was a person that for pieces of my life was really ugly and used ugly language and watched this movie and saw myself in this mirror and was like, fuck, man.

And also, like, on the second viewing was like, fuck, man. I've really come a long way. Like, look at me go. I don't know. Sure.

And, like, there was a piece of it that was, like, kind of empowering. And, like, again, as we've also looked at the mirror of, like, look at our society now, and we've talked about gun violence. And where does all this stem from outside of, like, American, we don't you ain't gonna take our guns, King George. Yeehaw. Or whatever.

Yeah. Because I think he would be like a 46. Wayne. You know what I mean? Like, I think he I don't think he would view himself as, like, a gunslinger or a fucking hero or anything.

Well, I don't know. He might view himself as himself as a hero. I think he views himself as smart. He sees himself as the smartest person in the room. Yes.

He sees himself as the Sherlock Holmes. In some ways, I think that's very dangerous. I think I think sorry. I'm just gonna help. The level of the level of the charisma that carries through in a performance with that.

And I'm gonna say this too. I praised Winona Ryder. Christian Slater fucking murders in this movie. Not only literally, he's so insanely good in the role. Like, partly, Ben, as you mentioned, he's, like, the good guy at the beginning, and he's portrayed as this and that.

You know, our love is God. Now let's get a slushie. And I wanna go back to that. At the convenience store, they have legitimate chemistry, and they dated, like, while this movie was being shot. Yeah.

And and, when, when she says, I don't like my friends, and he goes, I don't like your friends either. Is it is it either or either? I I Smart people help. I didn't like that. I think so in that moment, that for so, yes.

In some way, that's like a snarky elbow. But in some ways, that's like, at some point, I'll get you to leave them. Yeah. Even if they do suck, it felt controlling as shit. It is.

I agree. He's very manipulative. He's looking to me, he's looking for somebody who will he can manipulate. Yeah. Manipulate Yeah.

Yeah. To to to do what he wants to do. Yeah. Well and and she get I I don't wanna say gives him an opportunity. An opportunity is presented, and he takes it where she says, I don't like my friends.

We talk about Yeah. So when they decide to And he just piles on. When they decide to to to poison Heather, there's a conversation there of she wants to just make her sick and he wants he he wants to use the poison. Does he? And, yeah, he does.

He says he's gonna use this and that that's I think he he leaves the so there's some there's a kernel of something within her that I because I don't think she's completely great either. You know what I mean? Like, I think she recognizes I think she indulges the worst of herself and then realizes, oh, fuck. I fucked up, at some point. There's a there's a moment where there's a a lid Mhmm.

On the mug that has the terrible fucking thing that has the Drano in it or whatever it is. And if your mug has the poison, then my the Dread Pirate Roberts would use my mug with the poison. What happened the other way you responded? So you've decided. I haven't even started.

The ability to pick the mug with the lid on it is, if I may say, inconceivable. He chose he chose Inconceivable. Poorly. He did. I mean, a hangover cure that leads to death where you literally, like, get exploded.

Like knew he was doing what he was doing. No. He knew what he was doing, but she also that's the other thing. Like, there's no way that you would have picked up this mug that you didn't put a lid on, and you were like, this is the thing I put down earlier. I but every time she he kills somebody, she looks flabbergasted.

Yes. I I think he was shocked too, partially because his challenge is really weak. Like, I whip this up. You're too weak to drink it. And she throws it back, doesn't look at it, doesn't smell it.

And Right. Like, I think he's like, holy shit. She did it. And then she falls through the table. And in that moment, I don't think he has that whole thing planned where he's like, we're gonna write a suicide note.

I think he knew come in thinking that. I think he just wanted to kill her. Yeah. I I don't I think he Did he get his jollies maybe? Well, the fact that he is used to going from town to town, I think and because of who his father is Is this a repeat thing?

Like, we'll figure it out. Like, he's like, oh, wait. Who who the fuck cares? Like, we'll figure it out. We'll kill her.

She sucks, and then we'll figure it out. Yeah. I I think this could be a Freddy Krueger origin story. Like, if he weren't just the janitor at a school because then that killed kids, he was like somebody who just Only he had died in that boiler room. Yeah.

I'm sick of your TikToks. I'm gonna kill you. Bitch. Yep. Bitch.

Bitch. Oh, by the way, I would love to see Christian Slater play Freddy Krueger. If I can get one more meeting to pitch my Nightmare on Elm Street idea, I will ride it around Christian Slater. We can You will love the ice tea you want. And also, do IC will sponsor it.

Does anyone agree with the myriad logic where he's like, yeah. The more reason that she wants to prove that she knows what the word is of Myriad. And and I'm like, yeah. Sold. It's an interesting that was an interesting, like, back and forth.

Yeah. She's like, but she failed on it, but she wants to prove about it. Like, I don't know. Well, I almost wonder if that was him. In my way, that was like, from viewing that, it was him just wanting to be smarter than her at that moment.

I think if they you know what I mean? I think if they wouldn't have if they would have chose a different word, because I think her response to that was, like, smart. Yeah. Like, she fucked this up a week ago. She's not gonna remember it now.

She doesn't give a shit about school. Yeah. But she's him to be conscious. No. No.

I know more than you. She's so image conscious. There's a lot of him wanting to know more. Yeah. I think his logic floats.

I think that girl was so image conscious that she would make a point that she gets it. Constantly finding Underhanding wherever he lands. Yeah. I mean, he's a piece of shit to control her. Her.

Other than the first twenty minutes of the movie where he's like, is this guy a piece of shit? He's mostly silent then. He's a piece of shit. Yeah. It doesn't take time to figure it out.

Dude in a trench coat with a with a earring. Yeah. Part of the reason why we feel he's, like, dreamy in the first twenty minutes of the movie is he's like, hey, people that suck suck, man. Right? Let's be friends.

Let's get a slushie. This place sucks. Well, I also Never trust a handsome white guy. Well, also, everyone at this period of time. Right?

So I'm just I'm thinking back to where we were talking about stats. Right? Like movies that were performing well at this time, movies that have been released. I feel like people would come into this movie. I have not watched the trailer, so I cannot speak to right?

I feel like people would have walked into this movie expecting the John Hughes movie Yeah. I was just gonna say it. Where the where the regular asshole gets together with the with the narrator will guy Yeah. And they both John Hughes. Each other something and they come out on top in the end and it's not you know, whatever.

And so, of course, you're gonna fall for him within the first like, it's set up to play with the devices that are present at that time. But boy, does it I'm nodding so hard that I would nod through this microphone. That was like me with the I'm not what you're saying. Yeah. With the teacher meeting.

Like, I just feel like that movie nails that first teacher teacher meeting so hard with the, like, tell me when the plane lands, miss Fleming, and the principal just being, like, fucking a. Like, if I wish she were a cheerleader. We're taking an hour off, whatever it is. The whole school's reaction to all the murder, to all the deaths is Is wild. Wild.

I love it. Like, they don't like, they just kinda like like, yeah, that happened. That sucks. It's all about capitalizing. It's all about attention.

It's all about clicks before there were clicks. So the next people they kill are the jocks. Except they were clicks. Because they Yes. But she decides to go on a date, a double date with the jocks.

We meet Jason's dad who's his son. Oh, yeah. And they talk I actually think that's a cool thing. The fact that they talk at each other but not too like as each other Yes. Yeah.

Is a really interesting device to me. Yeah. Yeah. There's no relationship. Yeah.

Yeah. There isn't. But I just They're each other's answering machine. It's fucking wild. Yeah.

I had a shit day at work today. Yeah. And I really love it. And but the the funeral and then the cow tipping date that Heather McNamara talks to her, and, like, we're not gonna, like, go cow tipping or some dumb shit like that. Cow tipping.

They get drunk. They go cow cow tipping, and that's Cow tipping. Yeah. With, Vin Kilmer. Val Diesel.

Yeah. And when Christian Slater was, like, following them and you're like, okay, grosso. Like, what the fuck? All of the time everywhere. And he's, like, lit so beautifully from the back.

Mhmm. I was like And it's like a God's eye shot. Yeah. He visited the parade. Her.

Like amusing. Brought to you by iced tea. Oh, no. I almost did it. Yeah.

We almost had. We almost got sued. But when, yeah, when he says, our love is god, now Now let's go get a slushie. Like, that they are it's like we are the same. We are the same.

He sees this point in her, like, you are probably willing to continue doing what we've done. Like, you burned yourself with a lighter and got through it. We're still hanging out. Like, you're you're on board. We're Bonnie and Clyde.

They say it. Well, even if I were so I I think his point there is if I weren't here, you'd be stuck with these fuckheads who are not great people. That's a good point. That's a really good point. They're the worst.

Like, he's not so much But so is he. Like Does everyone He's shaving like, it feels like he's pulling her out of a burning building to throw her into a shark tank. Like, it doesn't fuck her. You know what I mean? 100 There is no when you are a good person, like, nice guys finish last.

But you are not It's not gonna work out for you. But but he is he is that. Right? He he is the juxtaposition to the asshole misogynistic jock. He is he is supposedly this enlightened Elevator.

Elevated. He's just as shitty and just as prone to violence. But but but he's Yeah. He's Clarington's romance. When he's presenting himself as the nice guy.

Yeah. Like Clarington's romance. And that oh, and we're just dropping the sound panels. It's Clarence just leave it. We're dropping Pam.

No. It's Clarence and True Romance. Can you throw me the, this is how professional we are. Can you throw me the blue tape over there? You wanna hold it?

Well, maybe throw me the This episode is sponsored by blue tape. Oh, Ice Tea's Ice Tea Blue Tape by Ice Tea. That'll make your shit stick. The the Blue Tape one? Yes.

A lot of shit will make a lot of shit stick. Is it? But the the yearbook spread and, like, and that whole exchange, Like, who didn't live through that in whatever way in high school or wasn't a part of that or whatever? I was on I was in the newspaper. Woah.

Which was the same class like, they were the same classroom. It was yearbook and newspaper was the same teacher. But I was on I was on, my senior year, I was an editor on the newspaper. Yeah. Well, and this is when, like, the reality or the illusion, pardon me, of Christian Slater fully breaks where it's like, these are blanks.

It's like, no, they're fucking not. You did this What does he say? He wants to do tranquilizers on them? Yeah. She kinda she well, the fact that she believes him.

He even says this later. It's like, you wanted to believe that this was gonna Yeah. She believes she she goes along with him so easily. She has temporary insanity. I think she loves him in a way from the beginning.

Like, she's like She sees herself. Yeah. She sees something in him that she hasn't seen in any other guy and it's intriguing and exciting. But at the same time, we do I think there has to be a point where we acknowledge that this was written by a guy. Totally.

Totally. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, I don't I I'm not here to be that kind of a downer, but it's it's very much like I think that's a good point. But also at the same time, if we are talking in extremes, like, she is the extreme of the, you know, Romeo and Juliet was written for a reason.

Like, they those are extremes in the moment. Like I said, you run the risk of people taking you seriously. You run the risk of it being a drama Well to some people. Yeah. This is where, like, in the moment, as we've talked about this, depending on who's watching it or how they feel Mhmm.

The moment where Christian Slater has to chase down which one did he chase down, Kirk? I I don't know. They, you know, stage this suicide pact. And I get why to a degree it doesn't age well, but I also get why these, like, very mature, very elevated people in Ohio that think they have it figured out. They're like, we know how basic these fucking people are.

If we just plant a couple things and say this was, like, two gay people that did this, they won't even look into anything. They won't care. Like, it won't matter. They'll just close the book on it. This is what these people do.

Like and that's that's how I feel it's portrayed, and I think it carries over well. And even the there's even a moment in there where the one cop when these two cops are chasing them after this, they hear the bullets go off in the forest, and they, are chasing Winona Ryder and Christian Slater. The cops are, and they don't know what's happened, and they start making out in the car. And the cop kinda looks, and the other cop is on the walkie talkie, and he's like, are they naked? Like, that's a more important detail to these gross fucking people Yeah.

Than these two people that are potentially, like, as far as they know, gay lovers that have killed each other. Because the cop says it's just a couple of kids making out and the cop's response is, are they naked? I was like, Yeah. Calm down, Sam Levinson. Jesus Christ.

By the way, I think I might have hiked that trail at some point. I'm not sure. Because that's a good way. Yeah. Well, and it's, like, like it's even things like, when Christian Slater is like, yeah.

If your gay son were still alive, would you care? It's like, no. He's judgy and shitty. There's a reason, and I maybe if I'm quoting it backwards, then cut cut cut this out. But when he says Nope.

My dead gay son Yeah. Like, the dead part comes first. Yeah. And Christian Slater, I think he says, what would he say if to that to the if his limp wrist son was alive or something. Or if his son was alive with a limp wrist or whatever.

Yeah. Which is a very valid point. And I get And I get I get the I get the sentiment. I'm not saying I'm not saying anything about, like, what they're trying to commentary on is outdated. It just it reminds me that again, it's doubling, tripling, quadrupling down that Christian Slater is gross.

Yeah. I mean, this is also Well, he got the point. So He does, but he may not. That may be how the dad felt. Like, I would rather my son is alive and gay than dead and straight or dead and gay.

I don't care. I just want my son alive. I mean, but also the the fact that he was in a coffin with his football helmet on, and he placed a football on top of him. And there's I mean, you know, and a joint funeral. It is.

Both of them. Yeah. Was that in the suicide note? Were they just honoring their wishes? Well, here's here's the other thing that I have to say.

As somebody who came from a small town and yes. Listen. My small town has let me down in ways that I cannot explain. Wow. Like, there there have been times when I have felt very, very sad to be from where I'm from.

But at the same time, I have experienced moments of love and acceptance and moments of learning and everything else from a small town place that and kindness I I hate to, like, try because, again, I don't wanna try and qualify a dark comedy because it is what it is. If you're driving things to the extreme, of course, your small town folks are gonna be small town folks. But at the same time, it's it's that thing of for anyone who would assume this is a drama. I I implore to you that there are small town people who I love dearly. One of my favorite movies of all time, top five, is In Bruges, and that is a dark I mean, I love Mark McDonough, and I think Mark McDonough, you can see a lot of that come from this.

Like, he's he's dark comedy at the doing a lot of that. Mhmm. So I I totally understand what you're saying. There's an approach that you have to take to a dark comedy that's different from any other movie. Right.

You have to be okay not only if there's like voice over and a diary and escalation, like, things like for not the FBI, not the CIA, not the PTA. Like, that's the worst possible, like, organization that could come after JD and not even they would be successful. Mhmm. But, like, it's when we go back to the second teacher's lounge meeting Yeah. Yeah.

Which is just as beautiful, and we get, like, the, like, I've seen sexual acts with tennis rackets on art exhibits and all that. And they're like, shut up, Pauline. Shut up, Paul. And I felt like I was in this program again for a second. Like, the PTSD of the shut up, Paul, was right there.

But the the evolution, like, very quickly again to where Christian Slater becomes fucking Roger Stone, where he's, like, just chirping in the ear of Shannon Doherty, like, like, hey, you've gotta take over the school. He's gonna keep Winona Ryder who is, like, now gonna break free of this psychosis of this Body and Clyde relationship Yeah. And say, like, maybe I do need to be a leader or whatever. He's gonna try to install this leader before she has a chance to come into her own and break free of him and this sort of thing. And I love the the blackmail that he utilizes with her is just, like, being old, old, old friends with someone who is not popular now.

Yeah. Like, that is the worst thing. Veronica. I love that they do that. Yeah.

Like, that's the worst thing she could think of of being associated with, which is hilarious to me. Yeah. I I also love when Betty and Veronica go, like, when they play, croquet together. Oh, shit. And the remaining Heathers, like, show up.

Yeah. And Yeah. And and Betty after she's like, I'm still a virgin. Well, I tongued Al. But, like and then she Is that really the name that she says?

No. She says, like, Al Simonson or something. The other two Heather show up, and she's immediately, like, no. Thanks. Well Like, we immediately know that Betty's probably a nice and good person, and she's like, I don't wanna be around these people.

Well, and it's also it's a it's a weird reversal of the the beginning of the movie where Winona Ryder is getting knocked out and Heather fucking knocks her ball at it. Like Yeah. Out into the like into the Into the ether. Out zone. Like, you know, kinda out far, like, beyond third base kind of situation.

And she's got a motor to do the rehab thing. Angels in the outfield as well. And she still makes it, which is You know, ridiculous. Like, she makes it back, like, in some Mirror. Yeah.

Whatever. Do we do you two know how to play croquet? I don't. Oh. I don't either.

I mean, I I understand the basic concept of it, but I've not played it myself. I play croquet a bunch. Oh, I haven't since I was, like, young, and I definitely didn't know what else to do. I know croquet. I really do.

I used to have my sense. You're fancy. You do play, slap ball, smash ball, rocket ball. Yeah. What what is it?

Pickle ball? I love that. Spike ball. Spike ball. It is a fun game.

I love Spike ball. Have an iced tea with you. I said it's sponsored by Spikeball. Have an iced tea. Which is sponsored by iced tea.

While you play Spikeball. Yeah. You can have an iced tea while you play Spikeball or Coop or Fauci or I Okay. But the so the moment at the at the beginning where she, like, knocks Veronica's ball, like, to the Yeah. Like, middle middle of nowhere Yeah.

Like, in with no hope of redemption whatsoever, she still fights to get it back where it is. Yep. And she I don't think she enjoys where it ends up because she's still close to the other three. Right? Yeah.

But when her, like, non popular friend comes over and they're playing croquet, she has the chance to either knock it through or knock her out of the arena, like her friend out of, like, score like, to add insult to injury in a way. Yeah. If you hit the other person's ball, you have a choice to take two extra turns Yeah. Or you can hit the other person's ball out of them. Right.

Okay. And she initially wants to take the additional turn Yeah. But she ends up at her friend's request hitting her out, but not to the degree you know what I mean? Like, there was it was still the same act of not I hate to say violence. Yeah.

But it's the same act of knocking someone out, but with somewhat mercy. You know what I mean? It's like what's your yeah. Totally. She had mercy involved.

It's like as someone who's played croquet, it's like your strategy is okay, fancy. If you're gonna if you're gonna hit them You gotta hit them hard. Hit them hard. It's like it's gotta be something that's gonna be beneficial to you. So you gotta hit them far away.

Right. Otherwise, you take the other turn. But but the idea is she still chose to Yeah. You know? Totally.

And I just want you to know that Benjamin has defeated me here on CroquetChat six three. Is that a real Croquet score? I don't know. No. I don't know.

But Paul But that includes CroquetChat. Paul has defeated me on CroquetChat. He ate more Croquettes than me. A % true. That is one of our many spin offs.

You're really gonna enjoy it. On the note of enjoying things, I actually really like the Martha Dunstock storyline all the way through. I love, like, the big fun shirt, the idea of, like, the petition being to get that crappy band to show up and do that crappy song and all the virtue signaling and, him pulling Shannon Doherty strings, but, like and the payoff for the month Martha Dunstock story works for me. But not everything does. Also, the fucking slap works for me the first time the slap happens.

When Winona Ryder just decks Shannon Doherty, I'm like, yes. I got a sick satisfaction out of that. Is that okay? Sure. Yeah.

Okay. So just to, like, expedite this process, Please. She knows she she knows that after she sort of, like, parted ways with JD, she knows that JD wants to kill her. Yes. He he basically he tells her parents, like, in a way.

Watch out for her suicide. She could she could kill herself. Be careful. And I gotta say too, it's it's I said something about Heather McNamara earlier. I think it's really great that she calls into that radio show knowing that the that Veronica and the other Heather listened to this and, like, spills her guts Yeah.

About a lot of things. It's a way to be like, I need help. I need your friendship. Yeah. Like, it means a lot to me.

And then they basically are just like and especially, the other Heather, Shannon Doherty. She's like, fuck you. Yeah. Like, I'm gonna use this against you. And, again, Winona Ryder does not.

She stops her from killing herself just for the sake of, like, some sort of fucked up legacy or attention after her death. 100%. Pretty great. And then she and then, our Winona Ryder fakes her hanging I love that. By tying the sheet around her I loved you.

Yeah. And she gets the full story of what he's planning to do. Yeah. Seems like something he would do. He loves to hear himself talk.

Yes. Totally. Totally. He's a he's a Reminds me of someone. Myself.

Yeah. We got we got that. You you said this quiet part loud. I know. This episode is sponsored by Subtext.

Which you get when you drink a lot of iced tea. Yeah. It's something, like, you pontificate. You sip on it. You think.

And you pee. It's a diarrhea. A lot with iced tea. So she finds out that he's gonna blow up the entire school. Yep.

Yes. And he is a full on psycho and he has gone full disgusting, nothing redeeming, but also awful. Can we assume that he got those explosives From his dad? From his father? Yeah.

Yeah. Or from his father's work. So Yeah. So, I mean, we also learned that his mom was in a building that his father blew up. She killed herself.

Yeah. She walked in early. So I feel like for preface what his father does if we know He's a demolition. He's a developer? Kinda guy.

He's a developer. Developer. He he comes in and and takes over older places and just destroys them regardless of what their, like, historical antiquity is and builds When Miller played there. Yeah. Yeah.

So he has access to dynamite somehow. Yes. Yeah. And it's also revealed that Jay's mother walked into a building that he was about to that, her husband was about to demolish, walked into the building, waved at her son, and then the building The first time he said that though, I was so confused because she's like, the last time I saw my mom, she was waving From the library. From a library in Texas.

It sounds like Kennedy. I thought Kennedy. Yeah. I was like, I was like, wait. She his mom killed Kennedy?

What what are we talking about? Seth, no. I thought Homer Simpson. That's Homer Simpson. I was so confused.

I was like, what is what is the reference to Kennedy here? I thought so too. That was the first thing that crossed my mind. I would love it if J. D.

Mom was the actual star. Oh my lord. If this movie went that far, I mean, we'd all agree five stars immediately. Right? One from the start.

Deepest of states. I again, it's just Illuminati. It's the oh, thank you. You give me power. But I just again, the thing, like, with the boiler room, the bright colors, the things that so many in so many cases, I'm like, oh, this feels like a fucking horror movie.

It feels like Nightmare on Elm Street. It feels like Yeah. I I like that it builds to that. So When we get to the high school is that she's trying to find out where he he she knows he's gonna plant a bomb. One of my favorite parts happens here.

What is it? When the stoner reaches up and lights the match next to the bomb under the bleachers and lights the their joint and doesn't notice care whatever that there is a bomb there. Like, is Comically, like, sticks of dynamite. Like, it's not just like, like, a covert bomb. Like, it is sticks of dynamite with a time.

It's like it's like Looney Tunes. Yes. This is a 50 or 60 year old, like, you're if you're that age, that the kids are in this movie, this is how your dad perceives stoners. Like, they don't even notice this kind of shit. They're such losers.

They don't notice anything. Mhmm. I I think it really nails it, and I laughed so hard both times. And she finds out that he's gonna be in the boiler room Mhmm. Which I thought was like, oh, classic Nightmare for Elm Street, or Nightmare on Elm Street.

Great. Nightmare before Val Nightmare before Elm Street Diesel. Yeah. Christmas. Family.

Family. Christmas. Jamie, I'm dear old man. Put that cookie down. Put the cookie down.

Jackson. What a wild movie, jingle me. I can't wait. I it's gonna happen at some point. We're gonna rent a movie.

We're gonna pop some popcorn. We'll watch it. We'll have a good time. I would love that. Me too.

I would too. I just wanna say just don't have a blitz and fries with me. The showdown the showdown in the boiler room works for me. Yeah. It's believable.

I wish she shoots off his finger. Yeah. That was cool. Awesome. That was a really cool in camera effect, I think.

Yeah. But also, like, when he accidentally, like, stumbles and hits the gas and it's like He does that on purpose. Right? Yeah. But it's like, would that not But he he stops the thing.

He stops it on purpose. Stops the bomb. Does he does stop the bomb on purpose. I feel like he does it on purpose. I Interesting.

It's this weird thing. It's it's a constant question of whether or not I want to give him credit. Do you know what I mean? I don't. Well, because at the end Yeah.

But the end I don't. But the end, he chooses to take the bomb outside and And, like, end his own. Yeah. And so because I feel like he feels defeated. I feel like he feels what I got Well, I think he was outsmarted for once in his life.

Exactly. Yes. Yeah. Yes. And I think she outsmarted him by faking her own death.

Right. And A thing he could never do. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that he comes to terms with that to a degree and stops the bomb on his own.

Mhmm. And then because because I like that to a degree. I think I mean, that's the only there's no to me, there's no other if you're gonna tell me it's happenstance that the knife goes into the thing and stops it, it feels that feels outlandish. I'm I'm okay with you thinking what I feel is outlandish. I also think it's great that we can interpret different things.

And we are coming off the heels of a fever dream of a a funeral where people are wearing three glasses. Oh, right. Yes. Also feel like interpretation is kinda up for grabs. Sure.

For sure. The movie's gone it's gone full dream master. We've gone full dream master. Yeah. Totally.

Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, I even questioned whether or not he actually a new person. Fuck. Survived the gunshot and walked out there and blew himself up.

But then I Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I love the idea. This is the only redeeming moment, I guess, that he really has.

And it's almost not really a redeeming moment because it's just again, it's like face up up to what the fuck you did. Like, go to prison, go to trial, whatever. These things, it's a coward's way out. But, ultimately, it's he's just like, none of us, like like, none of us are are redeemable. None of us can win.

You're gonna see, like, the horror of, like, me killing myself, and I'm gonna destroy you. And even that after that, she's not destroyed. I'm gonna go have pop corn with you. Like, I'm still gonna be an awesome person, and that's what how I earned the bow. I earned Heather's bow because I am the leader.

I am the best. I am the example. I went to hell and back, if you will. Yes. Yeah.

But it's also the thing of, like, but it's also the thing of, like, for such a for someone who has participated in so much violence, his death is not violent in the least. It's comical. We don't see it. Like, the fact that he explodes and we get a smoke machine Yeah. That that's it.

Carpenter's not bad. There's no nothing. It's as though he's a bit of a figment. You know what I mean? Like, he's It's a drop dead Fred situation almost.

Yeah. Sure. It's part of why I wondered if he actually survived the gunshot and walked out there. Right. Sure.

If or if she just took the bomb out and it blew up. Has she lost it? Yeah. It's yeah. I mean, that but that I mean, I think it's obvious.

Like, I've always been taught that if the thing if it's presented to you in this way, then that's the way it happens. You know? So, like, he he clearly did just walk out there. And I agree. I think also, he's not standing far enough away from the school.

No. I mean For the bomb he's wearing. I caught something second viewing. Her the cigarette that she takes out of her mouth Yeah. After he's like, what are you gonna do?

It's burnt down almost to the filter Yep. Where it's like she came that close to, like, being and that's where it's like the carpet's not burnt. The railings aren't burnt. There's no fire. She's just like it again, it's comical where she just has soot all over her essentially.

But, like yeah. But, again, three d glasses, dreams. The movie has gone full apeshit at this point. And, again, I It's weird how so during the, like, the cuts that we got to the student pep rally, like, upstairs, all I could think of was American Beauty. Oh, you sure you Woah.

Which feels so strange, but it was that's that that was uncomfortable in its own right. But it was Dream's it was Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Very dream adjacent.

Wow. Sam Mendes took from this. Is it Mendes? Mendes. Mendes?

That's I think that's pronounced. Yeah. Sam Mendes probably has seen this movie and was like, yeah. He's seen heaters. He's seen yeah.

But I've seen headers. He loves KD. Documentary. Team. Chocolate Factory.

Sorry. Football team. Football team. We hit the end of this movie. We hit it hard.

We did it. We blew it up. We hit it heard. We hit it heard. Melinda, another air five.

Hey. Bam. They just air five'd over my head. It's happened a couple times. I'm okay about it.

Well, as the guest, in a way to take pressure off us and disrespect you, you pick who rates this now after we've had a pretty intense conversation. Has changed. What is our current rating? Do we how do we feel? Wow.

Wow. Wow. I once served Owen Wilson and he did say wow. Wow. And I was like, oh my God, he said the thing.

That's all wow. His nose also looks wild in front of the person. I'll also argue with you that that Owen Wilson is two steps away from Jennifer Coolidge. So you go from wow to wow. Wow.

Makes me wanna hot dog. They both have a wow. Wow. Look. They both have a wow.

The gays are trying to kill me. Wow. These gays. These gays. They're trying to murder me.

They're trying to murder me. Wow. They both have a wow. Wow. They do?

Yeah. They're a good wow. Well? Anyway. Any wow.

So you get to pick the album? Any wow. Any well. The movie. Anyhow you want.

Yeah. I I think so I think, Paul, you should go first and we'll work our way this way. Okay. Okay. Dark as fuck.

We're all ugly and flawed and sad, little crazy. I think that movie has a pretty clear perception of that, and I think that it fucking rules. Things change, but they stay the same. Eighty nine twenty twenty three. A lot of shit, unfortunately, really hasn't changed.

Seven schools and seven states, and the only thing that changes is my locker comment. I I mean, be careful who you share it with. Watch it with them. It you could do some fucking damage with this movie. This movie is intense as shit, and you can interpret a lot of stuff.

But this is also, again, one of the most insane intense stories of personal growth of going to hell and back that I think I've ever seen. Everything feels intentional. Everything has a purpose. I think I read this as well as I possibly can, right or wrong. This is the tap 40 with Casey Kasem.

It's an incredible film, five slushies. Y'all both said a lot of really good shit, but I partially just read from fucking script. Like, I am so steadfast in my feelings for this. There was there was no changing Paul in this conversation. I came close at a couple points.

You you both pulled me at a couple points. That's what that's what he said. As someone who viewed this for the first time, I'm hearing these points. I'm I think there's validity to all of them. And again, I think I would totally recommend watching this movie to certain people.

I'm gonna stick at three and a half, mineral waters. Failure. I am a failure. I I I've said this before. I'll say it again.

Three and a half is still a pretty good score for me. Yeah. I feel like that's a movie that I I would watch again. I hate you, dad. I'm gonna shoot the radio on my way out.

Into my TV. I'm so mad. Also okay. First of all, where were they in that scene where there was a treadmill and plenty of plants and a radio? It was very strange.

It was like it looked like It was like a greenhouse? It it was their house that they never moved into. They like, there were boxes, places, and stuff. Just the absolute Yeah. Bare necessities.

Simple bare necessities. Simple bare can recipes. Forget about your worries and your strife. All you need is a fucking iced tea. Relax.

Yeah. That's true. That's right here. Bring us here. I still think I'm gonna keep things at a four for me just because stayed.

It's the worst episode ever. Yeah. It's not your fault. It's It's Paul's fault. It is.

It's actually maybe No. No. No. I who here's the thing. I tried so hard.

I got too far. No. No. No. I genuinely love this movie.

I think that it has paved the way for a lot of other good movies to come after it. I think that it handles topics like rage and being a teenager and darkness and also humor in ways that we probably aren't gonna see again just because of the way things are. And by that, I mean, like, I think Do Revenge is a good option to watch as opposed to that now. You know? It it it has I think now probably wisely so, we shouldn't lean as hard on violence to make points we wanna make.

Agreed. Right. Yeah. Whereas back then, I feel like it was more of, like, if you're gonna take stuff to the extreme, we're gonna take it to a this is the other thing that interests me. I'm so sorry to, like, fear off.

But, like, that they went for a violence angle as opposed to a sex angle because I don't think we really saw a whole lot of Sex. Sexual causes. No nudity. No. Yeah.

Which is a very interesting tact to take in a in a world where I feel like sometimes violence is way more aptly accepted. It it it's, it's it's not necessary, and it's a movie mostly about kids. So, like, I don't like, when they have that one moment with the same sex episode, we're there's a lot of kids do. Who did did we not all? No.

For sure. But they talk about having sex and we see the aftermath of sex. Right. Right. There's a lot of sex acts and talk.

Like, these are It is implied heavily. But we don't actually, like, experience it where where in other situations we do. In ways it's more tasteful, in ways it's less tasteful. Right. This is the to me, again, like, holy shit.

Thank you for bringing this. Yeah. Because, like, three and a half is a % valid to me. Four is valid to me. Five is valid to me.

I feel like it's just a three. Like, this is a one and a half. I'm like, you you're wow. It's very it's very difficult to get, like I I would still say I would still say after hours is a four for me too or a 4.5. And I it's only because I leave room for that.

Would like I said, when you make a dark comedy, I don't necessarily think it is meant to exist insularly. It cannot exist as as itself. It has to exist in the time in which it exists and it has like, people have to put their own impressions upon it. Yeah. So therefore, you have to leave that space for people to assume it's a fucking drama.

You have to leave that space for people to assume that it's an open witness. It's open for the interpretation. So I don't think that that works against it. I would even say it works against it negatively. I almost views it I almost view it as like a flexible space for people to like, my four might be someone else's five.

Of course. Or somebody else's two. Might be yeah. I I think it's all just flexible upon how you view humor. Absolutely.

How you view and I don't think there's any I don't I'm not gonna say there's not any right or wrong way to view it because humor has been misused for a while Yeah. Forever. But it's, yeah. It's a very it's an interesting and a thought provoking movie. I love that for croquet mallets.

Art. High art. High art. High tea. High tea.

Also, I think this also started my obsession with Moby Dick as a kid. Oh, cool. Yeah. Mine was Star Trek First Contact. My Moby Dick obsession.

Sure. Way to go, sir. Call me Ishmael. Will do. Yeah.

Not a problem. I I I can't let it go. Like, just very last thing about this movie, there are certain things that we can just leave to the ash heap of history in terms of film or, like, pieces of art or what have you. Nobody was ever right for burning books now or at any point in time. But there are things that we can just kind of forget about, I think.

This is one of those things where it was like I you know, I've heard and and I'm sure of we've all probably heard, like, French Connection got, like, edited. A few things got removed. Mhmm. Popeye Doyle is a piece of shit. That guy sucks.

Like, we're just along for the ride with this guy, and we're pulling for him because his goal is so important. This movie, a lot of ugly people say a lot of ugly shit. And, the eighties and especially, you know, early nineties, whatever, were really fucking ugly time as a lot of, human history has been. Yeah. And this is a really good picture of that and, paints a really accurate picture of things that, not only that we did to each other, but, you know, were done to us, etcetera, etcetera.

And that anyone is capable of. Yeah. It's and and there are things that we don't need. I mentioned a movie, earlier in jest. It's like, we don't need triumph of the will.

I mean, do do we need that as an example to make sure that never happens again? Who knows? But also there are things about this that it's like this presents an example of things that should never happen. And I think I think it presents it in a way that's satirical. And I think that when you when you approach it, it's important to approach it from that angle.

Mhmm. Right. And like you said, but it has to be open to be some people might approach it in the wrong way. And But I mean they misunderstand it. I mean, be careful.

Anytime anytime you make art at all, you run that risk. Yeah. Yep. Totally. Well, the theme's here.

We've come to the end. Anything to plug? Do you wanna say anything? Anything else? No.

Say you've done a great job. Listen. I'm gonna plug you guys. You guys are fucking crazy. Oh my god.

Thank you. Post. So, I mean, probably follow us at review x two podcast on Instagram. Yep. Paul acted badly on Letterbox.

Letterboxd. Jamie Henwood did our book and themes. Yeah. And Matthew Foskett did our what are we watching? What are we watching?

What are we watching? Melinda. Holy shit. Thank you so much. What a treat this was for me.

Thank you. 40. Yeah. Goodbye. Bye bye.

Bye. Bye.