8mm / Schumacher’s 7” (Guest Co-Host Eric Driscoll)

Ever wondered what it would be like if the director of “Batman & Robin,” made his version of “Se7en?” Guest Co-Host: Eric Driscoll has! “8mm” (D. Schumacher 1999). Starring: Nicolas Cage, Joaquin Phoenix, and Catherine Keener. 7/16!

More With Mr. D:

Maximum Overdrive

Yada Yada Podcast "The Bizarro Jerry"

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Oh goodness, this is exciting. We're all here on someone else's Zencaster. Hello, welcome to the Review Review, the podcast that reviews rates, and again, a film that is typically seven years old or older, two hours and twenty two minutes or less, and not part of a sequel or a major franchise. It's me, your co-host, my name is Paul. And today, I have a special guest co-host, the co-host of the Yada Yada podcast. And it's it's Mr. D hates movies, right? Almost.

Co-Host Intro

SPEAKER_03 0:33

You're almost there. Mr.

SPEAKER_02 0:34

D likes movies. I enjoy it. So much better. Of course I said hates. Yes, yes. It'd be it'd be a negative. Yeah, like I feel like I'd have less traction if I was just an angry teacher who went online and just yelled at movies all the time. I'm trying to avoid the old man yells at cloud meme as much as possible.

SPEAKER_03 0:51

So that same line before we started recording about what we were talking about.

SPEAKER_02 0:57

Yada yada podcast, Mr. D likes movies, uh, Apple and Spotify for Yada Yada Podcast, and then Mr. D likes movies is Instagram and TikTok. So trying to spread my my tentacles across all platforms.

SPEAKER_03 1:09

And Eric Driscoll, you also have a letterbox.

SPEAKER_02 1:13

I do. My letterbox is Drisky D-R-I-S-S-K-K-Y. And yeah, follow me on Letterboxd. I do try to put a little bit of effort into my reviews sometimes. We follow each other. Sometimes I'll log a review and you'll message me on Instagram about my takes about uh Freddie Krueger or Nightmare on All Street.

SPEAKER_03 1:31

And Nightmare for Alone.

SPEAKER_02 1:33

Sure, bud. Sure. I think I gotta go back because I baby. I need to do West Craven. I forgot I need to do West Craven's new nightmare. I haven't seen that. So I have to I have to go back. I fell off of it for a while. So I did that for a podcast. And let's go.

SPEAKER_03 1:48

I think it still mostly holds up pretty well. But in the meantime, Mr. D, I want to ask you what you've been doing.

What You Been Doing?

SPEAKER_02 1:56

What have I been doing, Paul? Aside from my movie reviews and my podcasting, I am a high school teacher. Um I just uh am officially turning into a full-time drama teacher next year, which is really exciting. Um, so I usually do drama and English, but I've built up a bit of an empire of courses. So I'm going to be doing drama and film and television courses next year.

SPEAKER_03 2:18

Different subject, but there is a Venn diagram there.

SPEAKER_02 2:22

Hell yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:22

Between English and drama.

SPEAKER_02 2:24

I know. That's why I became that. That was like my nexus point. And that's those were like two courses I loved. Um, in the age of like AI and ChatGPT, being an English teacher has been very difficult. Um so the fact that I can kind of put all my eggs in like the performative basket, it my school is really fun. So I do like the school play, and that's wrapped up. So I'm heading into summer, super summer, and I'm super pumped.

SPEAKER_03 2:49

I am excited about that. I am a little bit, I have to say, I assumed, I guess this was my mistake, that the children of Canada were better with the AI. No. I just thought, no, the Canadian kids aren't doing that.

SPEAKER_02 3:08

No, it's bad. It's bad. Like, it's every time I it's hard to like I could go on an existential crisis rant, but like I don't blame the kids. I think I blame the the the tech trillionaires who have put this technology for free in our pockets, not really thinking of the cognitive effects of it. Um, so if you're a high school kid and there's a technology that can do your work for you, why wouldn't you use it? And that's up to me as a teacher to be like, please don't. It's gonna make you dumber in the long run. But that's a hard argument to fight.

SPEAKER_03 3:39

Well, when you see so many people in various positions in life like not suffering repercussions uh for so many things. What have I been doing? Of course, you'd like to know. Paul, what have you been doing?

SPEAKER_01 3:53

What have you been doing with your life? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:55

I built a cabinet, I built an overjohn uh for over the the Toity because needed more storage. Just had to have it, just had like a very small vanity. Special K was displeased, put this up, looks great, centered directly over the toilet, got the level out and everything, got a bunch of stuff in there, looks great. Hardware matches, just it's a gem. I should I should walk you in there right now. I'm so proud.

SPEAKER_02 4:23

Um send me a picture because like that's like in this in this age, like I'm like task rabbit for stuff like that, call a friend, but you did this all yourself.

SPEAKER_03 4:32

Yeah, I uh I guess to whatever degree, depending on how you look at it, I see this as being really fortunate. Like one year for I want to say it was my birthday, I was given a book by David Macaulay called The Way Things Work. And it's an illustrated book with really easy to understand explanations of like, you know, install this, remove this, this is how this works, and conducts in a circuit, and holy smokes! And also, my father is very, very knowledgeable, very capable human being, nice and taught me a lot of things, as well as my former stepdad. I had really, really capable gentlemen to help me out with these things. That was my existence when I was young. We're gonna do it ourselves. That's that was beautifully put.

SPEAKER_02 5:28

I really like that. You're yeah, you're you're shouting out your your forefathers who've made you into the handyman you are today.

SPEAKER_03 5:35

Oh well, and like I said, you should see the over, John. Uh one day. It it really ties the room together.

SPEAKER_02 5:41

I'd be excited to see it. I'm a homeowner, and I'd love when somebody does a little project, like good for you, bud. Like, you should be proud.

SPEAKER_03 5:49

Yeah, I really appreciate that. What was the book called? Sorry, what was the book? Sorry, it was how things work the way things work. I'm gonna look into that. That sounds really, really fantastic. It's a really good book. Cool. Little tiny bits and bobs of so many things. And I I got an like an unabridged or revised

What Are You Watching?

SPEAKER_03 6:06

that went into how cells reception works and like just modernizes. It's pretty great. Cool. Well, we've talked about what we've been doing. I would love to know what you've been watching.

SPEAKER_02 6:19

Uh well, Paul, as a as a childless man, I have a lot of time for content. And uh I would say I could go on and on, but my big thing in the month of May was horror month. So that was a big sort of selling point to get me to get me back into my uh posting on TikTok and Instagram. Um, there were four releases in the month of May. It was Hokum, uh Passenger, Backrooms, and Obsession. Um so I made sure to see all four of those movies. And I would say like those movies ranged from like good to almost masterpieces, I would say. Um, and I don't know. I'm very excited. Like I've been talking endlessly with students about obsession. Like, I think it is a fantastic movie. If you follow the box office, it is shattering records left and right. It is a really cool story of like the little movie that could, and it's amazing because it's a great movie, like it's entertaining, it's got horror fans excited. It's got like my wife who gets usually pretty scared at horror movies. She loved it even though she was super stressed. So, um, have you seen it?

SPEAKER_03 7:25

I have seen Obsession. I have also seen Backrooms. Nice. I have not seen Hokum. Okay, I have not seen Passengers, but I know what these things are. Yeah. Uh I am in a 100% agreement with you on obsession. I I put some names in my letterbox review in terms of directors, that it's like, look, I'm not saying this person is that, but I see flashes of this. I think it's a really special, special movie.

SPEAKER_01 7:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:59

And I I think I've mentioned this, and listener, you maybe haven't heard this yet. I love what people that have sketch and YouTube backgrounds, but particularly I can I can speak a little bit more because I've consumed more, I guess. Uh, sketch, like Curry Barker, like that's a bad idea, or Zach Krager, uh, The Whitest Kids You Know, and Jordan Peel. These people are doing fucking great shit.

SPEAKER_04 8:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:26

But also, it's like I believe in what I call the three C's, and don't you correct me, Craven, Carpenter, and Kubrick. No, but also Cronenberg. But like, you know, there are three C's in there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I feel these filmmakers through this person's work, which is really cool.

SPEAKER_02 8:46

Yeah, yeah. There's definitely some of that influence, and like, even uh, I'm curious on your thoughts on backrooms because that's another, it's not sketch, but it's a YouTube phenom who's fucking 20 years old and so young and accomplished already. And he took like his cool concept from YouTube and turned it into a A24 kind of decent box office return at the movies. And I I I really liked it. Like I went in worried that it'd be too reliant on that creepy aesthetic, and I'd get a little bored by the endless hallways, but I was I thought it was pretty good. Like I walked away content. What did you think?

SPEAKER_03 9:23

I also walked away content. I think I feel something similar. I look forward to re-watching it at some point. I really enjoy a lot of the performances across the board and the sound design and you know getting into nerdy shit. It I like that the movie is vague. I like that the movie is intentional about how obtuse it is, and I think that's really cool. And again, I you think of a lot of these filmmakers that started in the 70s that I just mentioned, and there are other names. Listener, let them hit your brain. That these filmmakers that are, you know, 30 and under, like you know, we move forward into this generation 50 years, and think of a lot of a lot of things in the horror genre as just really doing some crazy cool shit again, like like it always does. To like, what am I saying?

SPEAKER_02 10:25

It always is. It's always like a consistent box office like winner. Like these things they don't cost a lot to make, which is nice. Like, it's not superhero IP, it's not big budget, like it's and it's like a communal experience. Like the backrooms uh screening that I went to is jam-packed, and they had like memorabilia stuff outside, kids showing up wearing hazmat suits. Like, that's an incredible it's an incredible showing for a movie. A movie that's like it's about an office space that is haunted, sort of. So it's cool that it has this kind of impact.

SPEAKER_03 10:57

The the thing that I really love about that movie is you and I could just sit here and talk about what we feel it's about or bounce things off of each other for at least the entirety of a podcast. And that's something.

SPEAKER_02 11:10

Yeah. But we have more important things to talk about, Paul. We can do way more. Yeah. What have I been watching? Oh, yes, very important. I'm so good at asking you questions.

SPEAKER_03 11:19

No, no. I wonder I want to hear your rankings, though. I'm super interested in like it sounded like you were gonna say some stuff about Hokum and passengers as well. And I just I wanted you to finish.

SPEAKER_02 11:28

Absolutely, yeah. So I would say like uh clear number one was obsession, backrooms would be my number two. I would put Hokum at number three. Um, it's from this director, Damien McCarthy, um, who did this movie Oddity. That was one of my favorites from I think last year or a couple years ago.

SPEAKER_03 11:45

Familiar with it, having seen it, familiar with what it is.

SPEAKER_02 11:48

Yeah, it's like Oddity, sort of like it's for horror, it's tough to find things that like if you're familiar with the genre, it's hard to find things that really scare you or get under your skin. And Oddity had some visuals, some setups, some sequences that kind of blew me away. And Hokum was great, a little, a little too like uh formulaic and clean at the end, like things kind of work out for the character. Oh, which I was like, okay, how did this happen? How did we get through this? Like, there's just plot choices where you're like, huh, Adam Scott was really on the ropes, but oh nope, we're okay. That's interesting how that happens. Um, but again, some visuals in Hokum that I still think about that haunt my dreams. Cool. Okay. And then the same for Passenger. A lot of people didn't like Passenger. Uh, it's a bit uh cheesy, the writing's a bit sloppy, but again, there's just these like cool recurring images and things that happen in Passenger that I was like, you know what? It might be a three out of five, but like it's it's the month of May. I've seen incredible horror movies, a three out of five, I'll take it. So um that would be my power ranking of the May horror month we just got to experience.

SPEAKER_03 12:55

Excellent. And I'm I'm looking forward to Werewolf is this Christmas, Robert Eggers. Yeah, that's the Robert Eggers. Yes. I mean, just I'm even while you were talking, I was like, Oh, yeah, talk to me and like empty man, and there have been things that and you were saying something that gets under your skin and oddity. Isn't that what that's literally about? Uh like the oddity is it like malignant?

SPEAKER_02 13:20

No, no, malignant's malignant is an interesting one. Oddity it is under the skin, yeah. Yeah, oddity has this like weird, like wooden figure with like a scary, creepy face that's just sitting there the whole time, and the camera, the camera really knows how to like to play it up. Like it's one of those like the wooden figure will be like facing one way, and then all of a sudden, magically will be facing up at you, and it's just this like wide-mouth scream of a wooden figure, and it with the music, it hits all it hits.

SPEAKER_03 13:50

Yeah, I was gonna say with what you just said in the framing you were making with your hands, it was very so much hand gestures. Yeah, yeah, picture there. Yeah, I don't know if you are a fan of or have a reverence for or if this really exists in Canada, a reverence for Rocky, like the like the Franchise Stallone franchise.

SPEAKER_02 14:16

Um, I it's interesting. I I was on another guy's podcast, um, and we were doing like our favorite sports movies, and I think Americans definitely have a reverence for Rocky, but I think the Rocky franchise and like I like Creed a lot more than I like Rocky, which I don't know if that's sacrilegious.

SPEAKER_03 14:33

Rocky one or Rocky as a whole.

SPEAKER_02 14:36

I think I've seen Rocky I, I've seen Rocky II, and I think I saw Rocky III. Rocky II I like a lot more than Rocky I. And again, I don't know. I like two a little better, also. Yeah, I don't know if these takes are bad. I remember watching Rocky I, and I'll be honest, like, I was a little bit bored. Like, it's not what I was expecting. It's a bit of a slog. It's a it's a character drama more than a boxing movie, and I think Rocky II really like gets a little bit more exciting. You have an antagonist, it's just like a little bit more entertaining. Um, why do you how do you why do you did you watch Rocky recently? Why do you bring it up?

SPEAKER_03 15:06

I just I've had some experiences, Mr. D, recently with movies that I hate. Maybe this is why I was trying to put this on you, and I apologize.

SPEAKER_01 15:16

That's okay.

SPEAKER_03 15:17

But I went back to a tried and true, a hitter, Rocky III, which is my favorite of that entire franchise. I don't love one, I like two, I kind of love four, I really love three. Okay, and I've seen all these movies up to and including the Creed films, yeah. But Rocky III, listener, if uh you're not aware, or as you recall, it is Mr. T as the antagonist. And this character is representative of so many things. And I am only but eleven and a half years old. When you're 11, that half counts for a lot. Well, that birthday was 56. No, okay. Well, Rocky Rocky, Rocky III at this point, Stallone has like a chokehold on the box office and is shaping cinema in a way. Uh, as a writer, as a director, and uh we just did Oh brother, where art thou? And the movie has like a montage, and I was like, you know what? I miss is a good fucking montage. Like, movies don't have montages anymore because audiences are assumed to be dumb, is my like a you can't put it together what's happening through a montage with music or images or a combination of both. Like, come on, and I just miss montages, and Rocky III is like a warm blanket that is also I agree with you so much. We were talking about this uh with Nightmare and Elm Street. I think Rocky IV and Nightmare and Elm Street 4 absolutely go, this is what this is at this moment. The these two franchises are quote unquote prisoners of the moment or creators of a moment, cultivators of moments. And with three similarly in both, like really well written, like well-structured characters, it's very clear who's who, what's what. It's really well acted, it's well cut. And uh, I know you said you've seen this, and maybe you're not so impressed, and that's okay, but this is like four and a half, don't get mentally irregulars, like for me, out of five. It is like a pretty and I'm not like a Rocky honk. Interesting.

SPEAKER_02 17:46

And this is Rocky III, you're referring to like you're saying Rocky III specifically it like kind of like knocked your socks off a little bit.

SPEAKER_03 17:52

Yeah, well, and like I I got knocked out of my socks. Uh I I we don't do franchises on this very much. I like franchises, I like sequels, and that one I think

"8mm" Facts

SPEAKER_03 18:08

is and maybe I've talked about this on the podcast. I know I've talked about four slash uh Rocky versus Drago. I don't care if I've talked about three before, whatever. Relentless, relentless watch, like the fight scenes that you're just like, that guy was dead 40 punches ago. Yeah.

unknown 18:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:27

I feel like there's less there's less realism in the fighting, maybe as Rocky goes forward. Because like I remember Rocky and Rocky 2, like like that's a boxing match. Like these guys are this feels kind of grounded in some reality, but I could see as like the 80s go forward, they want to go a little bit more bombastic, and it's like this man should be dead, his face should be mush. How is this fight still continuing?

SPEAKER_03 18:48

So it's it's American exceptionalism represented in cinema at its finest, like especially in four, where yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:59

I I don't think I've seen four. I because like I remember I can't remember what happened because I was like, Oh, I'll watch the Rocky movies, and I think I watched one and two, and then uh for whatever reason was just like, nope, I think I'm good, but you're speaking highly of three, I might as well get back on the get back in the ring, so to speak.

SPEAKER_03 19:17

Oh, way to go, way to put it. Uh potion for the fight. Here we go. All right. Here we go. Uh we've talked about what we've been doing, we've talked about what we've been watching. Maybe we should talk a little about the facts.

SPEAKER_02 19:28

The facts. That's me. We're talking about indeed. Am I introduced to the yes? I I yes, absolutely. The facts. The fun facts or the facts? You are the facts and the fun facts this time. Wow, yes. No, it's tweak. I've you know what? I think I was using today. I know, this is more than I was expecting. Oh my god, this is so exciting. I get I get to say so many things. Okay, here we go, Paul. Today on your podcast, we are talking about a little film called Eight Millimeter. Uh we are watching, we are watching eight millimeter. Tiny, tiny. You can barely find it on a ruler. Exactly. Uh, this is a Columbia Pictures two-hour and three-minute suspense crime thriller. Um, I'm sorry. Of course.

SPEAKER_03 20:16

I think I got you off track. Can you just do the do the Hofflin Pallone, the whole thing over? Just start that over. Yeah. What is GMBH? Uh, one of the production companies of the movie got it.

SPEAKER_02 20:29

And then should I just say it GMBH? Yeah, that's perfect. Okay, perfect. Hofflin, Pologne, GmbH. So just clarifying, I'm hitting all of these, right? If you don't mind. I have not a problem. I just want to clarify. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Uh, I'm just gonna take it from we're watching eight millimeter, if that's okay.

SPEAKER_03 20:47

That's great. I'm gonna probably keep the little jokes that we did. So I'll add it around.

SPEAKER_02 20:51

Keep the little jokes, absolutely. Uh this this film uh was produced by Hofflin and Palone, uh, GmbH and Columbia. It is rated R, it is a lean, lean two hours and three minutes.

SPEAKER_03 21:04

You are insane. Two hours.

SPEAKER_02 21:06

This movie got to you.

SPEAKER_03 21:07

It got to you, Mr.

SPEAKER_02 21:09

D. I'm excited. Uh, it is a suspense crime thriller mystery. Uh its budget uh was estimated 40 million, uh, adjusted 79.9. Its opening weekend, it came out February 26th, 1999 in the US, and it made 14.2 million, 28.3 adjusted, and it finished its gross in North America with ooh, 36.6 million, 72 adjusted, and it almost almost uh snuck to 100 million worldwide, but tapped out at 96.6 million, but 193 million adjusted.

SPEAKER_03 21:46

The power of Nicolas Cage, the global box office. Yeah, yeah. I think outside of anything else, and I think uh does that I guess that movie probably still gets an international release. Yeah, like it's it has like an international spice to it.

SPEAKER_02 22:04

So that is something to consider because it it yeah, it only made 36 domestic, but that's 60 worldwide. And I think that has to be the Nicolas Cage bump. And like maybe and maybe there's like more of an international audience that's like comfortable with the subject matter. Maybe the American audience is a little bit less. Um, because there was a lot of talk about the ratings, which we'll get into and like some of the material that may have been cut, but maybe international folks were like, this is like Tuesday morning for us, we can handle this snuff film nonsense. So who knows? There's no such thing as a snuff film, Mr. D.

SPEAKER_00 22:38

I'm freaking out.

SPEAKER_02 22:40

If I have to hear that again, I swear to fucking god. If you say snuff film three times, uh Max California appears in your mirror and in a in a crop top.

SPEAKER_03 22:52

No, that's Candyman. You're talking about Candyman.

SPEAKER_02 22:54

Oh yeah, Candyman. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:55

Candyman is the thing you're there. That's what I'm thinking about.

SPEAKER_02 22:57

Okay, what other movies were released this weekend? Uh I don't really know any of them. The Other Sister, 200 Cigarettes and Just the Ticket. Great cast in 200 Cigarettes, Mr. D.

SPEAKER_03 23:08

Who else who's in it? Oh, it goes on and on and on. You'd have to look it up. Paul Rogan and everybody else.

SPEAKER_02 23:14

Oh, do they all play cigarettes?

SPEAKER_03 23:16

They all do. Oh my gosh, you guessed the premise. That's amazing. It's not just a clever title.

SPEAKER_02 23:21

I like it. The weekend top five, uh, when this one was released, we have uh Payback, the other sister, message in a bottle, and my favorite Martian. Was that Christopher Lloyd?

SPEAKER_03 23:31

I believe it is, and it is worth noting. This did open number one. Good for it.

SPEAKER_02 23:36

I think four, yeah, 14 million. That's not terrible, but for a February release, I think that's like what you expect in that sort of winter, the winter months.

SPEAKER_03 23:46

And Box Office is not indicative of quality at all. But this movie getting to $100 million is absolutely fucking bananas to me. It's kind of crazy.

SPEAKER_02 23:57

Like a two-hour film set in the world of like dark pornography almost made a hundred million. Yeah, stop saying it. No, we don't say it on this podcast. We don't say it. Uh, some other films that came out in 1999. We have Suckers with a dollar sign. Interesting. Yeah, no, no question mark though. I like it. You really sold that. I did, I tried. Dudley Do Wright, Bicentennial Man, The Ninth Gate, Get Bruce exclamation mark, Wing Commander, Simon Says, and the Boondoc Saints. This is an interesting list of films from 1999. Not what I was expecting.

SPEAKER_03 24:34

Yeah. I get somebody had AI put this work up, apparently. By the way, did you know uh at the end of Boondock Saints, when uh Willem Dafoe shows up in a wig, and then that dude goes, Oh, that guy always gets us the top shelf pussy, that that's actually just Willem Dafoe in a wig?

unknown 24:52

No.

SPEAKER_03 24:52

Clearly. It's really recognizable and well-known actor, Willem Dafoe.

SPEAKER_02 24:56

Well, I guess I'm re-watching the Boondock Saints this weekend. Fantastic. Please listen to our Boondocks Saints episode, Mr. D. Absolutely. Uh the letterboxed average for this movie was 3.2. Follow you at Paul ActsBadly and myself at Drisky, D R I S S K K Y. And I guess run BMC. I guess if you want to. Even though he's not here.

SPEAKER_03 25:19

Run B-E-E-M-Cs. He always likes to spell out for people.

SPEAKER_02 25:23

Yes. Uh Roger Ebert. Who's Tom Shales? Is he another film critic?

SPEAKER_03 25:29

Tom Shales was a stand-in for um Siskel before Ebert chose a replacement.

SPEAKER_02 25:35

Yeah, yeah. Um, I saw that Roger Ebert gave a pretty decent review for this one. He apparently liked this movie like pretty well, which yeah, I'll throw that on there because I know I know he gave it a three out of four, so I'll just I'll pop that in there. Yeah, he gave it a thumbs up. Hell yeah. Shales, not so much. So Roger Ebert was a fan of this movie, gave it three out of four. Uh Tom Shales, not so much. Uh, and then the Rotten Tomatoes score for this bad boy, uh, a hardy 23%, uh 50 52 popcorn meter, uh Metacritic, uh 21. That's I think IMDB is 6.6. And let me just uh catch my breath before I say all the awards that it was uh nominated for and won. Oh, wait, it got nothing and was nominated for nothing.

SPEAKER_03 26:20

And as you were saying, the hardy 23%, like if if you're in the batting lineup for the Seattle Mariners and you're hitting 230, you're killing it on the Mariners.

SPEAKER_02 26:30

Yeah, you're that's that's a healthy percentage. That's a healthy average right there. For the Mariners, yeah. I'm gonna tell you about some that's the facts.

SPEAKER_03 26:37

Yeah, tell us about some people, Paul. I'll tell you about some people that were involved in this film. Director of this film is Joel Schumacher, R.I.P. Falling Down, which is oh a movie that I really adore, and mostly because of the Robert Duvall performance, but just because the movie's good too. I love that movie. It is a fun, wacky movie. Yeah, yeah. There we go. Simpantico Batman Forever, which I don't love, partly because at the very beginning of the movie, Nicole Kidman's like, Oh, hey, Batman, good to meet you. I'm Dr. Chase Meridian, and he's basically says, Yeah, I've read your books. You're a fucking idiot. So let me teach you about some stuff. And it's like, bro, you are a billionaire who dresses up and beats people, homeless people up at night. Fucking psychotic. I don't know. The only thing stupid about her is that she wants you to bone her so hard.

SPEAKER_02 27:29

I will accept I love Batman Forever and Batman and Robin like shamelessly, and I will not take that slander. They're both wonderful movies. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:38

And clearly somebody at Warner Brothers was like, yeah, Joel, all the neon you want. I don't care. So much neon. Yeah, yeah. Leather and neon. Bad company with uh Rock and Tony Hopkins, writers of this film, don't tell him, don't ask him, Andrew Kevin Walker, Psychokiller, Windfall, and said Evan Seven, then listen to our set Evan and episode with uh writer John O'Matt. Music is. I need to make sure I get this right and who I write the email or whatever to who to be upset with. Michael Dana, Little Miss Sunshine, where the craw dad sing, storks. All right, Michael Dana. Okay, okay, Michael Dana Cinematography, Robert Ellswit, Michael Clayton, The Town, Punch Drunk Love. All good solid bangers.

SPEAKER_02 28:26

Producers, Joel Schumacher, Flawless. Have you seen Flawless? No, I don't know what that is. I saw Fearless, but that's different.

SPEAKER_03 28:33

That's a different movie. That's a Jeff Bridges movie that's it. This is a Philip Seymour Hoffman movie, R.I.P. that is pretty good. Also, uh Bob the Nero.

SPEAKER_04 28:44

You want to really like that?

SPEAKER_03 28:45

Oh, look at that poster. There's a diamond on the poster. Gavin Pallone, Drop Dead Gorgeous. Listen to our Drop Dead Gorgeous episode, such a fucking solid movie. Jeff Levine, New In Town, and Jody Hoffland, Death on the Nile from 2022. Nicholas Cage. Now I'm gonna tell you this, Mr. D. We had an episode for adaptation directed by Spike Jones with writer, actress, the great Keiko Green. Also brought us Rocky War Picture Show. We lost that episode. It's our only lost episode. So this is technically our first Nick Cage movie.

SPEAKER_02 29:20

Whoa.

SPEAKER_03 29:21

That's fucking upsetting.

SPEAKER_02 29:23

That's it's both upsetting and an honor, I will say. Like, I I love I love this man so much, and I love adaptation.

SPEAKER_03 29:31

So he you know what? As we're about to go into this movie, and I'm gonna say this the man can like do no wrong in terms of movies.

SPEAKER_02 29:40

And he's got a face, as as we'll discuss, he's got a face, he's got a face, and it comes off depending on the movie, which is cool.

SPEAKER_03 29:48

It changes in this one. We haven't done it yet, we haven't done face off. Honeymoon in Vegas, Dead Fall, and you bet long legs. Oh yeah, legs were long. Not once, not twice, many times as we like. We'll reference those long legs.

SPEAKER_02 30:07

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:07

Joaquin Phoenix was Max to die for. Speaking of Nicole Kidman movies, You Were Never Really Here, The Master and Her. James Gandolfini, R.I.P. was Eddie, Zero Dark 30, Crimson Tide, True Romance. Peter Stormar was Dino. Peter Stormar, thank you, Peter Stormar. Until Dawn, Constantine, Minority Report. Anthony Healed, Longdale, A Time to Kill, The Client Postcards from the Edge, Chris Bauer, Machine, FaceOff. We gotta at some point. We gotta. I mean, talk about global box office pull for cage. I mean, and John Woo and just oh Sully and Thunderbolts Asterisk. Is that did I get that as well as you got the exclamation point earlier?

SPEAKER_02 31:00

Yeah, because you did the little you did the little star thing with your hands. Yeah, you kind of dropped it like you're putting a little salt on the dish. It was beautiful.

SPEAKER_03 31:07

Thank you, yeah, little molten there. Crisp Catherine Keener, Amy, Cyrus, Captain Phillips, get out, being John Malkovich. I will splash the pot with bad improv whenever the fuck I please. Myra Carter, R.I.P., Mrs. Christian, the love letter all over Amy Morton was Mrs. Matthews, up in the air, falling down, and rookie of the year. Mom from Rookie of the Year, why are you so horny?

SPEAKER_02 31:37

Yeah, she's she she wants bad and so horny. She wants to give him a drink so bad, and he just won't take it.

SPEAKER_03 31:44

And I want to know part of the reason why he won't take it, but I don't want this movie to be a moment longer. Help me. Yeah. What do I do? Norman Reis was who knows? Mimic, Blade

FUN Facts

SPEAKER_03 32:02

2, and Boondock Saints 2, all shit movie. I have that on the notes. Wow. I that's what I that that's what I'm reading on this card. I don't know why it says that. Is that the title of the movie? Do you have it up?

SPEAKER_02 32:14

I am looking to it's I I'm not familiar with this. I'm familiar with Boondocks Saints 1. Is Boondock Saints 2? Is it an all shit movie, so to speak?

SPEAKER_03 32:21

All Saints Day is what all it's all saints day. Oh, we made a mistake in the notes.

SPEAKER_02 32:27

It's not fair to the good people of Boondock Saints.

SPEAKER_03 32:31

I don't sometimes I just read and I that's terrible.

unknown 32:34

I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 32:35

Is it a bad movie? I can only imagine because the first movie is a real piece of shit. It's one of the worst fucking things I've ever seen.

SPEAKER_02 32:44

I didn't, I have no, I have no takes on the Boondocks Saints one and two. I think I watched the first one like years and years ago. I have no concept if these movies are good or not.

SPEAKER_03 32:54

We did a review on it for March 17th last year. And I see a copy of that movie and I feel like a physic I'm not like an angry person, and I see that movie and I'm like, fuck that. Like I'm like, fuck today. Like I'm and I don't know why I allow that. Do I have to call it art? This artistic expression. Folks, listeners, if you haven't listened to that episode, if you haven't seen that movie lately and you want to put yourself through it, but also anyone who's listening, including you, Mr. D, overnight the documentary about the making of Boondoc Saints and any other research you want to do. It is a fascinating fucking story. Interesting, interesting, interesting. Fascinating.

SPEAKER_01 33:41

Okay. Wow. Yeah. I didn't even know they did this. They yeah. Tony Montana, Mark Brian Smith.

SPEAKER_03 33:51

It is a really I love docs. Do you like docs? Do you show your kids docs ever? Will you like it?

SPEAKER_02 33:58

I do, yeah, yeah. Like this. I do an English First People's class. So um we do we watch this documentary called Real Engine, which is about um indigenous representation in Hollywood from like the very beginning of cinema. And it's a pretty great watchable movie. Like it gets into a lot of like John Wayne stuff and then how the genre shifts with like smoke signals and the flags of our father. Like it's a cool, cool doc. So yeah, I'm a I'm I love docks.

SPEAKER_03 34:24

New AI doc from the I've heard about this one tenor, which is apparently good. I liked the new AI doc. It was pretty solid. Yeah, and fuck it, let's indoctrinate them. Lessons of darkness, Werner Herzog. Fuck it. Good, let's go all the way.

SPEAKER_01 34:40

Hell yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:40

Turn on the turbo. This episode is brought to you by the turbo, by the way. And let's take it into turbo. Let's let's put that truck in turbo for the fun facts, baby.

SPEAKER_02 34:49

Let's go to the fun facts. Uh, because this fun fact is kind of depressing. Uh, David Fincher was the first choice to direct this movie. You don't say what? Wow. I don't think he could have maybe fit into this genre a little bit.

SPEAKER_03 35:07

Detective. I think he has to make nine nine or N-E-I-N, and then he has to do something for ten, and he has to make a let like it's a whole thing. It's like that sketch from the whitest kids you know, where it's like W for why did I sign this fucking contract? He's stuck in a fucking loop.

SPEAKER_02 35:26

Yeah, it'd you'd be trapped, he'd be trapped. Um, so David Fincher was the first choice to direct this movie. So in 99, that's Fight Club, right? Like he did Fight Club in 99, so that's where he went.

SPEAKER_03 35:38

Not a movie I want to rewatch or discuss all the time with people, but like absolutely a uh absolutely gotta watch thing.

SPEAKER_02 35:47

Yeah. Uh also uh some short list of directors were William Freakin and Paul Verhoven would have liked to have seen those. I like those guys, those are fun guys.

SPEAKER_03 35:56

I think that Verhoven movie is something.

SPEAKER_02 35:59

I think it'd be a little spicier, a little sultry. Yeah. Imagine if it's Paul Schrader. You know, I was when I saw the Paul at the end of this line, I was like, is it Paul Schrader? No, it's Paul Verhoven, but yeah, imagine it's Adrian Lyne.

SPEAKER_03 36:12

Like, there are so many directors I feel like I can throw out here.

SPEAKER_02 36:16

Yeah. Uh which is bummer. It is, because like I think, yeah, we'll we'll get into who we ended up with and how that turned out. But uh for the role of Tom, who is Nicolas Cage's character, uh, a few actors were considered. We had Bruce Willis, who passed, Val Kilmer, Mel Gibson, John Travolta, Nick Nolte, Charlie Sheen. Pretty murderous row of guys. Yeah, dude. Russell Travel. Charlie Sheen's still a big deal at this point. Oh, at this, yeah, absolutely. Like all these guys, like especially in the 90s, like nobody's really problematic. Mel Gibson's still in the light of his life, like he's still a box office draw. Like, all these guys could have done well.

SPEAKER_03 36:54

Right before the Nick Nolte mugshot.

SPEAKER_02 36:56

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 36:57

If I could take my hat off right now.

SPEAKER_02 36:59

Yeah. If you look at where all of these guys have ended up, it's not great. Like, it's kind of like John Travolta Scientology, Charlie Sheen did what he did. Val Kilmer rest in peace. There's just like it's a real time capsule of white guys who could have been in your movie.

SPEAKER_03 37:16

Well, and it's like poor Bruce Willis and poor Val Kilmer, like those things. But like we were talking about these other people with their demons. And I mean, you're gonna go on about this here.

SPEAKER_02 37:26

Well, we got Russell Crowe, uh, who, you know, he may not have gotten in trouble with the law, but he's been in some weird movies in the last five, ten years. Interesting guy. Interesting guy. He was pretty much essentially almost gonna take the role, but then I guess Nicolas Cage uh expressed interest and then they pivoted. And the Sony uh studio bosses were like, nope, fuck Russell Crowe. We want Nicolas Cage, he's our guy, which I think I prefer for a movie like this. Like, I think Nicolas Cage is a better fit. Um, Mark Wahlberg was offered the role of Max California, who is the Joaquin Phoenix character, and he declined. Don't know how I'd feel about that one. I feel like I wouldn't, I would, I don't think Mark Wahlberg would fit at all in that that role.

SPEAKER_03 38:10

I think Joaquin Phoenix is one of the best cast roles in this movie of a movie that honestly the strength is the cast and the works the cast is doing. That's the biggest strength the movie has.

SPEAKER_02 38:26

Yeah, we'll talk about that, absolutely. And then um, for the role of Dino, who is Peter Stormer, Stormer, Stromer, Stromer, yeah. Uh, we had Eric Roberts, Tommy Lee Jones, Charles Dance, James Woods, Willem Dafoe, and Rucker Hauer. All names I recognize. And again, like I could see like Willem Dafoe as Dino Velvet could have been an iconic, like that could have been fun.

SPEAKER_03 38:51

All fantastic actors. Yeah, like this is a good list. If you've seen the Eric Roberts filmography, it's there's some shit in there that like Star 80 and Runaway Train and like Rucker Hauer, good gravy.

SPEAKER_02 39:07

Yeah. Like it's like, and it's like interesting too. Like when you put two names, like Eric Roberts is like definitely not as well known, but a slimy, known for sliminess. But like he's so good at it. And then you have like Tommy Lee Jones, and like that's a very different approach that he's gonna take to this character. So I I'd be curious to see how those would have worked, but I think we'll talk Peter Stromer. I'm content again with how we ended up with him.

SPEAKER_03 39:32

So we're gonna put it in overdrive about movies that we're gonna reference or or things that we're gonna recommend to y'all today. Mr. D. Eric Roberts is in a movie called Star 80, directed by Bob Fossey. Have you seen this movie?

SPEAKER_02 39:47

I have, and you should not be surprised because I will plug the blank check podcast that I love so much. They covered Bob Fosse and I watched all of Bob Fossey's movies. And I really Star 80 was really dark and really good, um, but doesn't really hold a candle to like all that jazz or cabaret, which are two of my favorite movies of all time, full stop.

SPEAKER_03 40:10

I cannot speak to all that jazz or cabaret, especially not sitting down and watching them as a whole. I I am not a person who can go super deep on musicals. I can tell you this. It's not something I'll ever watch again. If it's something that someone I think someone can stand, or I'm comfortable enough talking about it, I will absolutely recommend it to people. That Eric Roberts performance is twisted. Unsettling to put it lightly.

SPEAKER_02 40:51

Yeah. Yeah. That movie is that movie is like kind of a show. Like it kind of sort of a in a similar vein to 8mm, like definitely some dark subject matter, like um, like an actress who's sort of put in a bad way in this like sphere of power. Like there's some you could there's some threads you can draw between Star 80 and 8mm, and like 100%.

SPEAKER_03 41:12

This is part of why I'm doing this. It's a if it if it's one of these things that you look for as a cinema go or a movie watcher, is I want to watch stuff that I don't know if I'd ever fucking re-watch that, or I just love dark shit. You know what I'd re-watch? Irreversible. What else should I watch? It's like I would never fucking re-watch irreversible, but no, how about Star 80? Have you seen that?

unknown 41:35

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 41:36

I'd recommend that to that person.

SPEAKER_02 41:38

Yes. If you're looking to be scarred emotionally by a film, which some people like myself enjoy, watch it once and be like, well, I need a bath, and then we'll reset for tomorrow.

SPEAKER_03 41:49

So there is something about movies that embrace the really ugly and twisted side of existence that

Brought To You By

SPEAKER_03 42:00

strike a chord with me. I want to make sure that I say that before we go into this. Like, I'm a person that really likes Alien 3.

SPEAKER_02 42:07

Alien 3 is not bad. It's not bad. I think it's fantastic.

SPEAKER_03 42:11

Yeah. It's it's I like the studio cut that came out that it's a as we're gonna talk about in a moment, you don't talk to David Venture about Alien 3.

SPEAKER_02 42:19

Yeah, yeah. Uh, I'll continue with the fun facts. Um, writer Andrew Kevin Walker uh stopped his work on the script after disagreements about Sony's notes to quote tone it down, which I find very interesting. Like just because of the subject matter and what we got on screen, I'm very curious about what was in the script and how much they had to like lose to make this thing palatable.

SPEAKER_03 42:43

Does the wife live? Does the baby live? Yes. I wonder that too.

SPEAKER_02 42:47

I think yeah, because we'll again we'll talk about the ending when we get there. But um, so Joel Schumacher agreed to Sony's notes, and they worked on the script with writer Nicholas Kazan all the way into production. The movie still received an NC17 rating from the MPAA, an estimated five times before the final R-rated edit, which is again super fucking interesting because it's like, what the what's the footage that's getting cut? Especially with the Evil Dead. There's Evil Dead movies that are coming out right now, and there's headlines about them trying to move from an NC17 to an R. So still kind of relevant today.

SPEAKER_03 43:20

Yeah, and where they're gonna put all that extra content where they're like, we're just gonna get 4K distribution, like we're gonna get ahead of this to make sure that this fandom gets what they want.

SPEAKER_02 43:33

Yeah. Uh, and then the last two fun facts uh in an interview 20 years after the movie, Joel Schumacher said he was still proud of this film. Sure, why not? Interesting. Yep. And then I'm so glad you're making me say this sentence on a microphone. Um, the enema film scene at the porn swap meet is a genuine SM film that was heavily edited, heavily is bolded and italicized, edited for the inclusion in. The main movie. What a fun sentence. Was that the one was that the clip we saw with the nurse? That was the nurse I believe so. Yeah, that was a fun sentence.

SPEAKER_03 44:09

Which spanking video was it? Because there was half a dozen videos where people are getting spanked andor sh stuffed shoved in their ass. Which, okay, in this day and age, stick shift in there. Go, yeah, get it in the turbo. Fuck on ram it in there. Yeah. Read me the fucking log line as fast as you can.

SPEAKER_02 44:28

A private investigator is hired to discover if a snuff film is authentic or not. Is it real? Paul, is it real? What do you think?

SPEAKER_03 44:39

I don't know. We've been recording for 44-44, so what do you think? Whoa. Interesting, right? How young, right? Yes. And by the way, a private investigator is hired to discover if a snuff film is authentic or not. I mean, you gotta when I say as fast as you can, to put it in the turbo.

SPEAKER_02 44:54

Oh, I

Cinephile Round

SPEAKER_02 44:55

had to okay. Can I try one more time?

SPEAKER_03 44:56

To give you one more chance to micro machine this.

SPEAKER_02 44:58

All right. Just call me machine. Here we go. A private investigator is hired to discover if a snuff film is authentic or not.

SPEAKER_03 45:07

Yours was way better than mine because I could understand every fucking word.

SPEAKER_02 45:11

Is that the goal or is that not the goal? I should have done it.

SPEAKER_03 45:14

That is absolutely the goal. I'm gonna hire you for the micro machines commercials. Listeners, we are about to play a little. Would you like us to play a little the game? We'll play a little the game. We'll be back after this uh message from our sponsor, turbo. Okay, Eric, we're coming out of turbo, Mr. D.

SPEAKER_02 45:34

That was intense turbo. That was so much turbo.

SPEAKER_03 45:37

I need your help as the turbo's cooling down. The dilithium crystal is reaching closer to its natural temperature. Are you a Star Trek person? Uh no. No. No. Are you a Star Wars person? They have so they have light speed, right? Yeah, more so than Star Trek, I would say. What actor do you like from the Star Wars universe?

SPEAKER_02 46:02

From the Star Wars universe, I would say honestly, um, because I'm uh I'm a bit of a like I'm 30, I'm in my 30s, and the prequels I really love. I would go with yeah, I would go with Ewan McGregor because his Obi-Wan Kenosi is kind of like my uh true North Star of one, two, and three. So I would be that would be that would be my answer.

SPEAKER_03 46:24

How about you name a Ewan McGregor movie? Maybe you just name one of the ones you just named. Uh Star Wars Attack of the Clones, Star Wars The Phantom Menace, Star Wars Revenge of the Sith, Train Spotting, Train Spotting 2.

unknown 46:42

Oh no.

SPEAKER_03 46:44

Oh no, this is an

First & Current Experiences

SPEAKER_03 46:46

actor that I like a lot.

SPEAKER_02 46:48

He was in an episode of ER as well. I couldn't tell you. It doesn't count. It doesn't count.

SPEAKER_03 46:52

It doesn't count. I just lost. I just got crushed. Yeah, like this is the actor that I arguably like love. This is a great actor. I had a long good road. I was like so stuck on like what's that motorcycle journey movie he did, and I couldn't, I wasn't sure of the title and I couldn't get off it. I couldn't get off the motorcycle. This makes me happy.

SPEAKER_02 47:12

Yeah, like I I remember I butchered it the last time I was on with you guys. I think we did David Bowie with me, dude. This and I still had I think I had Shallow Grave in the tank. And I don't know if we could have done a really good poll. Could we have done a movie that is about to be released? Because he's in a new movie, The End of Oak Street. That's coming out this year.

SPEAKER_03 47:31

But I am excited to see that. Dinosaurs does look good. People love dinosaurs. So uh he wasn't even birds of prey. He wasn't birds of prey. I mean, there's so many things, yeah. Yeah, what an embarrassing showing for me. Well, now that we have done our little the game and we're back at cruising speed, a little more smooth, a little more safe. Mr. D, I'm gonna tell you my first experience and my first rating with eight millimeter. Please tell me. I'm dying to know. I remember I rented this movie with a handful of other movies. I'm sure there was a Dolph Lungren movie andor this and that. I was playing the game Parasite Eve. As I had just gotten to retirement age, I had all the time that I needed, but I was also not feeling well and just like was slamming movies and this game, which is Squaresoft, if you're familiar, listener, is the people who make Final Fantasy. It was their attempt at like a Resident Evil game. There were a couple of them called Parasite Eve. And so between clumps of playing Parasite Eve, I watched this movie. And I will tell you, I am a person at a young age who is like, oh, hardcore? Twin Peaks Firewalk with me? Nine and a half weeks, eh? I didn't care for this movie. I don't remember it super, super well, other than some mild imagery, and like I'm sure it had Joaquin Phoenix in a crop top, as you had noted. Iconic. Iconic in the crop top. Yeah. So I want to say I rated it approximately a two. And it didn't hit me till I was watching it. And two weird little what's his weird little gun? What's your weird little gun you have? That you do you have to have your weird little gun with the extended barrel or whatever your weird little gun is. So that I think it's very intentional that he is so attached to this gun. It's like an extension of him or his dick, or what I don't know what it is, but there's something about this gun and why this director and or actor chose this gun. So two of these weird little guns. Okay. On this viewing, I got it on Fandango at home. I assume it's like a digital or transfer from a DVD. I looked for it in the LA library system, and I I'm pretty sure the app said, Are you fucking kidding? We're putting you on a list.

SPEAKER_02 50:18

It's like, are you sure seven?

SPEAKER_03 50:20

Yeah, watch seven instead, idiot. Are you sure you didn't mean seven? Are you sure you you didn't mean salt burn, whatever? Oh my god. That's good. So yeah, I was pretty sure I got put on a list for searching for this movie. That said, like I watched it with headphones on. It made the score more excruciating to listen to. Thank God I wasn't the only one. The score is so terrible. Yeah. I don't really like the editing. I don't love the framing, which is like a bummer because this is like clearly a very talented director of photography. I and I don't want to speak ill of Joel Schumacher, as I wanted to make sure I mentioned like falling down fucking rules, depending on who you talk to or your level of nostalgia, like and despite its flaws, uh Lost Boys, like three and a half or four saxophones for sure. Like, so this is a filmmaker that's done some really good work, St. Elmo's Fire for whatever that is, or however you feel about that. But filmmaker that's done some stuff. And I don't want to speak ill of this person, especially as you know, he apparently 20 years after the movie was made, you know, seven, eight years ago, was like, yep, eight millimeter. Solid great film, yeah. Yeah, and for me, it's like like at its hardest, eight millimeter, maybe at its absolute thickest, proudest eight millimeter.

SPEAKER_02 51:45

This movie it's this movie's neither a grower nor a shower.

SPEAKER_03 51:49

Like, I know exactly it's an eight millimeter. So I I will say I think I must think even more negatively than I did. Is I tried to put this on you, Mr. D. Mr. D hates. No, he doesn't. Mr. D likes movies. He just made you watch this because he hates you. It's not about him hating movies, Paul. He hates you. So he made you watch this one and a half weird gun movie. Yeah. One and a half.

SPEAKER_02 52:18

Yeah. Uh this is the second time I've seen this movie. Uh I double-checked. I watched this movie five years ago, and I'm trying to get myself like, why did I put on this movie? It was 2021, weird times we were living in. Um, I think Oh, yeah, you could just consume movie after movie exactly. Exactly. And I think I had just I had been in like a group of guys that I teach with. We do like a movie retreat. We watch a lot of movies uh together, and through that we watched The Rock, we watched Con Air, we watched Wickerman, we watched Vampire's Kiss. Like I'm I got very Nicholas Cage pilled, and I still am awesome, awesome, awesome. Every single movie. It was just great. And like I'd say over the course of my life, like his filmography is vast, and I've probably seen at least half of it, I would say, and that's a generous number of movies considering how he's done a lot. He's got quite a few credits. Um, so I think in 2021, very similar to you, uh, I gave this uh two sexy crop tops out of five. Um uh and so going back to I was certain one of us was gonna give it battery-operated vaginas. Yeah. Man, well, Keen Phoenix, we'll talk about the cast because the cast does well with this. The cast does well with this. They're trying. They're trying. So the Emily Blunt level of effort, yeah. You won't understand that, listener. No, that's from off-mic, which is a nice off-mic reference. Yes, so I watched this uh two nights ago. Uh, I could have paid five dollars to rent it, or I got a free trial to something called Sony Pictures Core. I don't know if you I could have done that as well. I decided to do it and I did it, so I got to watch this movie for free.

SPEAKER_03 54:00

I don't trust myself to hit the unsubscribe.

SPEAKER_02 54:04

I did it today because I actually went through I went through Sony Pictures Core to see like, oh, what else could I watch over the next six days? Not a lot. So it's gone. I got a free eight millimeter watch out of it.

SPEAKER_03 54:16

Great, and it had to be the best, it had to be the best representation available of this movie because again, the fang fandango at home was it had to be a DVD transfer. Like it was like, all right, this is fine.

SPEAKER_02 54:29

Yeah, you mean 20 or like 4K TV. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 54:33

Yeah, like it doesn't look fantastic. Like clearly, Sony isn't like, we gotta get that fucking 4K remaster ready of eight millimeter for arrow video. Yeah, they're like they're they're integrating the crossbow into the marketing and everything.

SPEAKER_02 54:49

It looks like the crossbow is coming right at you. That's what you're hoping for. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Start The Movie (conversation)

SPEAKER_02 54:54

So on this watch, um, like, do we like have you did you mention what you think of it now, or do we save that for the end?

SPEAKER_03 55:01

I said one and a half. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 55:03

After my rewatch, I'm at one and a half. I think I'd be in the same bow. One and like that second crop top that is already showing his belly is now cut in half. So now we can see his nipples. So one and a half Joaquin Phoenix sexy crop tops. Because this, like, I went, like, I locked in, I had snacks, I had headphones, I was just like, let's I want to like this movie, and holy fuck, Paul, this movie is quite poor. It is quite bad.

SPEAKER_03 55:29

It's interesting that you're picking him because he and to a degree Catherine Keener, but mostly him. It's like, this is the one character that I like. And maybe in in the late 90s, it was like, oh, this guy's bad because he works at a sex shop and is like a free-thinking, free-loving person that likes rock and roll. And it's like, well, now in 2026, he just seems like a pretty nice, like helpful guy who got dragged into a situation, and then this happened. Like, fuck you, movie. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 56:04

And he's and he's full of quips, he brings in a sense of humor, and it's Joaquin Phoenix, and like the movie desperately, it's almost like Joaquin Phoenix is showing up to rescue a drowned victim, which is this movie. I think there are two people that try really hard. Yes, and they can't resuscitate it because it's it's DO.

SPEAKER_03 56:21

They do their best. They do their best. Okay, everybody, we're at one and a half weird little guns, and one, it's just sleeves. Sleeves at this point. Sleeves. Yeah, Eric. That's all it is. Okay, we're gonna talk about it as best we can chronologically. Ad nauseum, it's eight millimeter. It's eight millimeter. And as the movie starts, and the project here we're already here, Eric. The projector's already just like and all the credits, and then suddenly the very kind of colorful or almost neoniethereal Miami airport lighting.

SPEAKER_02 56:57

Yeah, it's a big, big transition, and we're seeing our boy Tom Wells, and he's in Miami.

SPEAKER_03 57:03

And the music at this point is great, it's on point, it's like dramatic. I think it's like really working to counter the world I'm looking at and and giving me an idea of the world I'm going into.

SPEAKER_02 57:19

I would say that I would agree. Like, from this moment, I'm like, because I don't remember the beginning of this movie well. So, in the instance of this movie starting, I'm like, okay, so what is he here for? He's he's a gumshoe detective, he's on a mission, it looks bright, there's good music. Okay, like maybe this will be a like in this moment. I'm like, this is gonna be better than I remembered. Like, let's let's try this.

SPEAKER_03 57:39

Yeah, it's so efficient at the beginning where it's like, yeah, this guy's a PI. He works for very powerful people, he's very efficient, he's very professional, and like very like mum, closed-lipped, keeps everything's everything quiet. And there's a storyline about his family, his wife, and his baby that he can't let go of smoking. And I think like that's it's like this guy's susceptible to vices because he smokes. Because it's like that's the only pay. I mean, does he quit? No, I think he gets worse.

SPEAKER_02 58:16

I think he smokes so much, like he might quit at the end, but like he it's like she discovers two cigarette butts and she's just like, I'm losing him. He's gone.

SPEAKER_01 58:24

I've heard I just don't know what to do with him.

SPEAKER_03 58:27

This is his gateway to murder and eventually smoking a literal person. She is so distraught about it. So distraught. And he gets called in, Cage, when I say he, Tom, Mr. Wells, Mr. W gets called in by Mrs. Christian, this very powerful woman, philanthropist, I assume, etc. Yeah, who's husband was yeah, of a lady that's almost too nice, almost too present. We'll talk about this. Yeah. Like solid performance.

SPEAKER_02 59:01

Yep, yeah. Like a sweet lady, and I would say, like, it's a bit this is a part, like we can put a pin in this because this is what I think is wrong with the movie. It's too nice, too clean, too earnest. And the way she interacts with Nicolas Cage at every turn is so like they're so like nice to each other, they're earnest, they're just so it's so boring.

SPEAKER_03 59:25

I can't you see everything coming and it's not satisfying. Yeah, like, and that's the thing, especially when you watch a movie that's about it's like when you see something coming, you want it to be satisfying. That's what this movie is about, kind of to a degree. And you know, right when you see this woman's lawyer, you're like, oh, this guy's super evil, as he's giving you his like, oh, you went to pen on an academic scholarship and could have been a lawyer, a financial guy, and he and Cage, I and this to the movie's credit, where he says, I decided surveillance was the future. Yeah, like it's like, oh man, there's a level of okay, yeah. But there's also the movie where it's not at all. That's a perfect use of verbiage where it's like the movie is not that at all, like right after this, where it's like you see the movie that he watches, and I guess this is way edited down, and I guess this is the most palatable version, but it's like seven goes there more than this movie.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:24

It's insane how, and again, I don't want to sound like a sicko because sometimes I feel like like it doesn't feel rated R. Like it doesn't even feel like I know shocking, it's not that shocking, and it's the way I I think the problem is the way the movie is set up, we're not seeing everything Nick Cage is seeing, we're seeing an edited camera version of what he's seeing, and they're just two different. Like, we're watching him react to some things, we're seeing blood spatter in other shots, but when you finish watching that movie, you're just like, that was nothing that didn't feel like that, just looked like a murder, but nothing jarring like this.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:01

This movie is supposed to be salacious, yes, like right at the beginning, there's a level of salaciousness that it is is trying to sell itself on and the industry that it's in. And you know, it's a snuff film snuff, and they say something about how it's like, oh, it's your pretty standard porno, and apparently he didn't sit down for that part. Like, it's like he sat down only for the part after, or that was the part it cut to. That's a really good question. Yeah, I don't need to see the porno necessarily, I understand the porno happened, but when it cuts to she gets punched, and it's like, oh damn, like she really got punched, but then it cuts to him as you were saying, and you're like, dude, Cage, I love you, bro, and I know that you're this is what Tom Wells does. I know you just like give into these things, but it's like it's too much for me. Yeah, it's too hot for the camera. I agree. This is was a director that didn't say to a superstar, like, and maybe he didn't see it, maybe he disagrees with me. This is what I hate about what I do about movies that I don't love as I start rewriting. Why didn't somebody direct him down? Yeah, it just feels really hot for camera.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:11

Yeah, and I feel like this is what's gonna make this episode really long because I think we could get into the minutiae, but I had the same thought because when the when um Marianne Matthews is slapped, like it's it's a slap, but the the reaction Nick Cage has is so dialed up, like he created it. Really unbalanced, it's so unbalanced, and like I'm like, dude, you're watching it.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:32

Then she gets murdered, yeah. And he's like, Oh, this is a little better. Now I can handle it. Yeah, there's the blood. Oh boy. But like I smoked a cigarette, so I was I needed that. Have you seen hardcore? I have, I was waiting to bring it up. I love hardcore. That movie is way more like it goes there way more, and the movie is 20 years older than this.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:54

Yes, yeah, and George C. Scott, he like he knows how to act because I think the other thing that this movie doesn't have is George T. Scott is seeing his daughter in a porno, and there's no murder, but like his reaction is iconic, and this is just like a oh my god, yeah, what she's getting away from in terms of Marianne.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:15

It's like, oh yeah, that's a really bad situation. Get out of there, and it's really unfortunate she fell into what she fell into. But this the other story, the B story of hardcore, uh, is way more interesting than this one. The B story goes aside, and the C story, and the D story, and the E. There are too many fucking stories. Yeah, like Nicolas Cage. You know, we're gonna get to the end of the first act right about here. I promise you. Nicolas Cage has to get his like gun kit, and like he somehow gets to Cleveland. I don't know what leads him to Cleveland. Maybe you caught that, but the music is immediately getting fucking weird.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:53

Yeah, it I the music I was jumping out to me at times, like it was bouncing between genres, it was bouncing between styles, and it just felt like you couldn't escape it. Like you couldn't escape it. It felt like it like weirdly international, like it felt like they were trying to go for some sort of a weird. That's why I said nations, exactly. Yeah, like there was something off. And like, I are we up to where like because he goes to Cleveland, I don't know why, but I don't either. And he's this is where he starts flipping the archive. Is there? Yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:22

He's going through the archive, he's going through the FBI because the thing yeah, because because he thinks it's a specific girl already, I guess, because of it feels super random, and he sees this guy's tattoo and what the film is, and it's going through these like okay, like police procedural detail to a degree. Like, yeah, it a lot of the time when Tom's talking to his wife, played by Catherine Keener, it feels like TV, but that it also at times feels like the best work these actors are doing in this movie. But I so boy, I hope you have time to go over this until 6.15-ish, sir. We'll figure it out. We'll figure it out. Okay, I think maybe faster than that, but hopefully 6.15.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:06

Well, I think what we're at now, like he's basically like this is where we're on the second act now, we're moving into it. Yeah, but like the the thing that I compared it to, because obviously Andrew Walker did seven, and there's a pretty great scene in that movie where there's like going through archives, they're in the library, and it's shot beautifully. Like it's a music, it's a it's incredible. And this is the difference between Schumacher and Fincher, because Schumacher were watching Nicolas Cage just look at photos in a terrible office that you're like, I don't like what I'm looking at, and this is a boring thing he's doing. And we do it for 10 minutes, and the thing that we talked about earlier is the fucking conversations he has on the phone with Mrs. Carter is just so unpleasant and so earnest. And it's like, you can count on me. We got this. I'm already on the case. It's weird and stilted, very weird and stilted, and just like I wrote down voices. Scouty, like Boy Scout, like that's good. I agree.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:03

We're gonna be in an echo chamber to a degree here. Like, you know, Tom meets mom, the mom of the girl who has been killed in this film, yeah, and she pops in and out of this. As I'm feeling like, bro, it's like, yeah, sure. This is it's like Twin Peaks brought to you by the director of Batman and Robin. Like, that's what this feels like. Like these all these characters feel like they exist in a different movie from a different filmmaker in Joel Schumacher's universe. And there's just I just feel him andor the studio notes through this movie so deeply. The fact that Nicolas Cage stumbles on that diary, and then does that voiceover work for you? Because that the phone calls and the calls with Mrs. Christian, this doesn't work for this. Is one of the movies I'm certain I've said on this podcast like voiceover's hard for me. And I found out, oh, like actually, when it's not like Blade Runner or apparently this movie or some other ones, it's not that difficult. And with this, it's not like the the main character of the story, like walking us through the story for the voiceover. It's various people doing various things.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:22

Like the diary in particular, like I also struggle with voiceover sometimes, but it was giving like um like no name Laura Palmer. Like, we've discovered this diary, we've like, but the things she's saying are not interesting and are pretty tropey. And it's just like, okay, a clue. I found a clue, time to go to the next thing. But I I don't care about I don't know this woman, I don't know the girl, I don't know her story. We've just found this weird diary. And the other thing I found silly about that scene is like she knows he's something of an investigator and interested in the case. The movie plays it like he has to like rummage through her stuff, like all sneaky and suspicious, but like why would she care? She probably wants him to find clues to find his her fucking daughter. And I'm like, this doesn't make sense.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:05

Like she he ah, she's like, Don't you work for the you know investigator peoples? And he's like, I'm something of a scientist myself. It's like, no, you're you're you're not, and when he when he goes and has the conversation with Norman Redis, because that's the thing is like we have to go from place to place in this movie, and Norman Redis is like, I ditched that girl in California, and we know she wanted to get into the industry, and so many similarities with movies that exist in this universe we're gonna inevitably go over the titles, but we end up like eventually getting to Joaquin Phoenix. Another this is one of the only times that a random thing happens that or that feels random that like works for me, where he's where Nicolas Cage is like, on a hunch, I'll see if the very first guy I have uh a chance to converse with that works at a porn shop will take me all the way up to the tip top of the underground of porn production.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:13

Yeah, yeah. And this happens in hardcore because George C. Scott has a similar montage where he goes through the strip and he has some really uncomfortable interactions with the people all around that that area of, I think it's Los Angeles where he goes. Yeah, and all of a sudden, the first place, like you said, the first place Nicholas Cage walks into comes across this charming crop top wearing individual who, like, to be to his credit, though, is charming as fuck, looks kind of cool, like looks kind of has that sort of like pre-2000s punk look that draws you in a little bit. And again, they do a little bit of like, I'm not actually reading porn, I'm reading in cold blood because I'm something I'm something of an intellectual, if you didn't notice. Exactly. Exactly. It's it's nice that it's Joaquin Phoenix because like he becomes sort of a sidekick. And again, it's a tropey thing, it's a bit silly, but I I'm glad I'm in Joaquin Phoenix's hands for this movie now because up to this point, I'm bored as fuck, and I don't care. So him he j he injects something into this movie at this point, which le leeches onto me a little bit.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:17

He does say something for me that leads me to believe he can take Nicolas Cage as far as he needs to go, and that's when he says, shit you'll see that you can't unsee. Like dance with the devil, the devil doesn't change, devil changes you, and that whole thing like becomes the devil thing, especially like becomes corny after it's repeated and repeated and repeated. But like I've been to Casa Diablo in Portland. There's shit you can't unsee, and people but you know, when he says that, I immediately give that character credence where he's like, I'm warning you, yeah. And I immediately go, Fucking A, they're gonna kill him. I know they're gonna kill him, and I'm not gonna like it.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:04

Yeah, yeah. Because it it yeah, we're jumping we'd jump, we'd be jumping ahead on that, so we can save because that's a whole scene of itself, the Max California, him getting killed. Because like, I think it's important to talk about the pilgrimage they go on, where of course, like they it's so and I don't know that I'm very curious of your thoughts on this because like they're in this like underground world where they're seeing kind of shady shit, some dark things, but like the whole time I'm like, any fucking teenager can pump in anything on it the internet and find stuff twice as bad. Like, it's just a weird, like neutered version of the dark web that this movie I just think doesn't have the the ratings or the balls to like actually go into a dark place. Like they hinted it a little bit, they have like a little sign that says like way beyond XXXXX, sick shit, but like okay, cool. That's some that must be some sick shit in there.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:00

But it's also and they say they go over what it is, like kids, right? Like upselling shit, beastality and stuff like that, and then someone goes snuff, and someone goes, There's no such thing as snuff, and he's like he almost like explodes, he's so fucking mad, and there are people around him like watching movies jerking off, like actively, and you're like, All right, unbalanced reaction. But as to your point, uh in '99, when this movie came out, the internet is already going. Yeah, and porn is a huge part of that boom. It is a huge part of the VHS boom and DVD boom. It's a huge part of any media that booms, magazines, all these things. So it's just one of those things where it's like the movie for me is just like a few years too late. It's weird to say, like, Johnny Mnemonic and hackers are more like this, you know, does a better job of predicting things. It's weird to say that, but I also feel it's like Lawnmower Man is better than this movie, like that kind of shit. Yeah. And then finding out like so easily, so often we've been we were talking about how cage falls into stuff. When they but the first tape they buy, it's like, oh, same girl, and they find it out immediately. Yeah, it's all these conveniences, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:24

Yeah, there's no montage of him watching a bunch of porn, which I think they would like that'd be a fun vibe. Like you have the shot of like the pile of DVDs or VHSs just getting bigger and bigger, and Nick's Cage eyes are like bloodshot, and he's like, I've watched so much porn.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:39

Pile of cigar cigarette buttons in the butts in the ashtray, just growing, a turbo energy drink, just like his own commercial from Japan for turbo energy or whatever it is, just like yeah, losing it. But that's and that makes way more sense with him falling into this, like and whatever he starts to fall into it way too easily. Where it's like you spent most of your time, according to what I've seen, looking through photos in computers and Rolodexes and records than you've done anything else in terms of investigative work. The fact that you fell into this movie immediately is kind of miraculous. A thing that it by the way, it is fucking miraculous, Mr. D, that you were like, I have never seen Wes Craven's New Nightmare movie that I've done a podcast on. There is an actress from that movie in this movie. Who who is in New Nightmare that's in this?

SPEAKER_02 1:14:40

At the nunnery when he ends up at the fucking nunnery. Yeah, why again? Oh, like I have my notes, but why was he at the nunnery again? Like that again, that's sort of his memory hold already out of my brain. She had she had some things.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:56

I can't remember how. I'm already like checking out of this movie as Gandolfini is showing up, and this does inject some life based on it's a terrible term to use. Go ahead. Gandolfini showing up does have me excited about the movie again, though. So just again, based on the cast, the movie keeps getting like jolts of my interest.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:25

Well, the reason why I think because I like what you're putting down because like when Gandolfini shows up, he's the first like bad guy we've seen, and it's like almost an hour into the movie. Like, we're we have no antagonist, we have no person that we've seen. Like a movie like Seven, which we can compare a little bit to, like, we've seen multiple murders, we're getting a sense of who this sick guy is. It's one grainy black and white movie that we've seen, and that's all we have. And the when we see Eddie Pool, he is like a bad ombre, and we're like, okay, now I'm kind of like getting out of my seat a little bit because he's like interesting and dark and bad and gross. And we've spent this whole movie just being like kind of tangentially surface-levely in this world of darkness. But he's the first guy where we're like, okay, so this is our character now, it's James Gandolfini. Let's get into this like dark, strange porn world that Nicolas Cage is a part of now.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:20

So and Gandolfini gets phone tapped by Cage, like it's the conversation. I feel like this movie tries to touch on that at points. This this movie constantly feels like other shit that it's like, don't aspire to that because you ain't that. Yeah, you're not gonna come close to that. No, and the set and art direction in this movie, I want to say though, fantastic.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:44

Yeah, like are you talking more like so when they're in the office of Eddie Poole or the office of Dino Velvet and you're looking around and you're like, Yeah, this looks legit. This looks like a fucking producer's office.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:55

At some points, you know, he walks into places and it's like, oh, there's a Danzig poster. Of course, there's a Danzig poster, but at other points it's just like, oh shit, this feels like really legit and seedy, and like people clearly put the work in on this, carpenters and other people, like painters and shit, busting their asses. Yeah, and there's this porn shoot that cage ends up uh infiltrating as he's following Gandolfini. And this is part of the reason why the movie has an R, I swear to God, is like there's a dick in it. I wrote that down '99.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:32

Yeah. And I was like, I was like, man, I'm like, I'm happy there's penis in this movie because it's like it's it's a porn movie called 8mm about the the dark side of the internet. And I'm like, it took me this long to see a fucking penis. Like, Jesus Christ.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:48

And there's been so many people getting spanked throughout the movie in various forms and ways.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:54

That's the dark web of 99, where it's like, oh man, the CD underbelly. Let me let me open the covers. Yeah, let me open the covers of the dark web of the internet. It's just people getting spanked in various ways. That's it.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:07

So this is the cage bluffs Gandolfini and it pays off, and it leads him to Dino Velvet, who is I love the fucking quote by Joaquin Phoenix. Dino Velvet, the Jim Jarmish of SNM. That's a good line. Such a great line. Like, this is part of what keeps me going through the movie. As does it feel long to you at this point? I literally wrote down this is a verbatim.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:39

I'm reading your sheet. At 56 at 56 minutes, I was shocked to see I had more than half to go. Like, I was like, I must be I must be into the the third act by now. I had not even gotten to the halfway point, and I was like, Are you fucking kidding me? This movie still has more to go.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:55

It's and it's so much of it is it's it's murder by numbers, it's paint by numbers, yeah. Where Miss Christian look into the checks, it's a million dollars, and we look into the pentagram tattoo that we know is gonna come up again at some point in the movie, and Dino shows up, and again,

Meet Me Halfway (through the movie)

SPEAKER_03 1:19:19

an actor, a cast member, just like injecting life into the movie, injecting a level of suspense into the movie that wasn't really existing before. And I just think that's that actor.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:33

Yeah, he's chewing the scenery in the best way. Like his line readings, his delivery, the way, and again, this is sort of metatextual, but like we love Nick Cage for a lot of reasons because I think he has a captivating face and a good persona. Dino Velvet looks at this man and he's just like, I see something in you. You got a fucking face. And I'm like, we all see it. Dino Velvet, I am I agree, I agree a hundred percent.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:56

Part of the reason why I can only imagine after we went through that whole big list is like it kind of has to be Nicolas Cage's if you're using this director of photography, you have to have Nicolas Cage's face in this movie. Yeah, it's you can't take the face off the screen.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:10

Yeah, because and again, they like looking at like names like Mel Gibson, Val Kilmer, maybe even Charlie Sheen, like I would just say too handsome to fit in the realm of this underworld. Like, Nicolas Cage has a sort of like uh like scary, sexy kind of face. Like he's got the slick back hair, his eyes can do like the wide eyes can come out of nowhere. And I I like when Dino Velvet looks at Nicolas Cage, I think like I could see Nicolas Cage starring in a fucking porn. Like I could see a shit face in a porno.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:43

And I think Dino Velvet sees the same thing because 2.2 million dollars, I'll do it.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:48

There you go. That was a good cage, by the way. Well, thank you.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:51

Where's my pig? He's a great movie. I love pigs. I love pigs so much. I want to say as we're on the subject of movies we're recommending to listeners. Have you seen The Sultan Sea? No, I don't know. Val Kilmer does a few he does this a few years after 8mm. Another movie that I think delves into some of what this movie aspires to and just does a better job of it. And Val Kilmer stars in it. And he's just like, you know, he's a few years away from Batman Forever and Island of Dr. Moreau and The Saint and a few other things, and he's doing some like interesting indie stuff a little more often, and he does the Sultan Sea and plays like I believe like he's a jazz trumpeter that is one of those guys who like loses himself in the role, he goes too deep undercover, and it's a pretty cool movie. By the way, listener, I'm watching Deep Cover on Friday live. Director Bill Duke's gonna be there. Mr. D, if you've never seen Deep Cover, watch Deep Cover.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:57

All right, I appreciate the recommendation. I will say I am on the Salt and Sea's Wikipedia page, and it looks pretty cool. And I don't know how this is possible, but do you know who Eric LaSalle is? I do. He yeah, so for those that don't know listeners, I love ER more than words can describe. And Eric LaSalle plays Dr. Peter Benton, cardiac surgeon, and he is a producer on the Salt and Sea. And I don't know. No shit.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:26

I love that. That's pretty cool. I'm a dork for a movie called Blind Fury starring Rutger Hauer, and it is the seen it and loved it. Only movie produced by actor Tim Matheson. Tim? I think that movie is so great. It's a playoff of a Japanese franchise called Zatuichi, and it is so goofy and amazing. That's when this movie is clicking for me, is when it leans into the goof factor when Cage makes a flat out, absolute, undeniable Simpsons reference. Or yeah, he says to Joaquin Phoenix, it's money, people use it to purchase goods and services. I wrote it down. Yeah, it's 100% a Simpsons reference, and I'm like, yes, go with that. That is somebody who's like losing their mind. Yeah, yeah, is just like unconsciously referencing shit. You know how I know that, Eric?

SPEAKER_01 1:23:17

Say, say more.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:19

Worry about the crazy people who pretend to be sane. Uh worry about the crazy people. I unconsciously reference things all the time. I'm trying to make it. No, I know this about you, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:23:31

I know this about you, and that's why I sometimes stare at you, trying to be like, is he gonna tell me what he's referencing? Or do I have to sit in this limbo of no no?

SPEAKER_03 1:23:40

Yeah, so that's very frustrating. I apologize. Uh does this work for you, by the way? When Nick Cage is like, here's the money, get out of here, Max. Go do something with your life, and you're like, This guy's gonna fucking die. Yeah, I know this guy's gonna die. This is the sacrificial lamb. It's so shitty. Yeah, and Cage goes, get your butt on a plane. And I'm like, This guy's saying, get your butt on a plane, and he's been like watching people get murdered and porn and stuff. Like, what the fuck is this?

SPEAKER_02 1:24:15

He he should be saying things like, You get that sexy, spankable ass of yours on that plane right now, Max California.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:21

Like, let me have a taste first. Yeah, let me have a taste first.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:30

Oh I will throw another, let me throw a Simpsons app right back at you because that's that scene gives McBain. It's such like that's something I think of all the time now. Like me and the teenage to retirement's the retirement. We're gonna steal our boat called the live forever. Like it's a perfect reference.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:48

Mr. D and listener, have you ever gone to YouTube and typed McBain the movie?

SPEAKER_02 1:24:54

Oh, of course. You can get the whole McBain experience in one YouTube video. It's incredible.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:00

I love it. And and beautiful thing is they aired out of order. Yeah, that is true. Whether or not they were intended to air in order, I don't know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:09

When it comes together though, it's a narrative. There's a narrative to McBain.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:13

I love I love it so much. And when Jay Sherman comes on to the man, I love that show so on that note, and I love the critic and I love The Simpsons, but this movie, it's like, what if the guy who directed Lost Boys did video drome? That's what I'm thinking as I'm going into Dino's studio, and the lawyer shows up and is like, I've been evil the whole time. What a twist. What a twist.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:44

One of my favorite lines in the movie, though, because it comes, I think it comes as soon as they enter the the lair of the the set. Nick Cage just looks at this like gimp-suited man. He's like, Hello, Machine, love your work. They're like, that's a fan. That's a fan of the genre, right there.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:02

Like, may is he deeper into this than I thought. Yeah, it's awesome.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:10

Off screen, he was like, I actually really love what Machine brings to these pornography films. Put him in face off with me.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:16

Put them in face off. Incredible.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:18

I already did that, but you know, put more of them in there.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:21

Can I ask can I I think we're at this point. Can I ask one plot question that really kind of bugged me? Oh my gosh, please. I would love to try to figure out this puzzle. Like, so the twist is the lawyer's been working for uh this this trio the whole time. He's aware of everything, he's in on it, he's trying to steal some money.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:38

Why did he paid to produce the movie? He paid them to kill that girl.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:42

Exactly. Like, so the guy that he his boss was doing it. Why why did he give Nick Cage the film? Like, I don't understand why he there's all this money and possible extortion going on. Why did he give Nick Cage the film only to get it back from him and then burn it 45 minutes later?

SPEAKER_03 1:27:04

So he says, I thought you would just give up, you're not very smart, you stumbled onto things, and it's just a terrible piece of like writing hate exposition of just it, yeah. I hate it too.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:18

I thought you were gonna say that. Like, it's like because I think he says, like, I did it to appease Mrs. Christian, and I'm like, that's so dumb. She's an old woman, and this is a giant safe. He could have just been like, Yeah, I'll go drop this film off with a private detective and we'll see what he can do. Fucking throw it in the trash, movie's done.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:35

Like movie's over.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:37

And like, God bless it over with. So done and over with, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:41

When I was telling you about Disclosure Day earlier there multiple times, I was like, You're trying to take a fantasy movie and make it exist in a real world rather than have a fantasy movie with realistic elements. I'm getting started. Movie with fantastic elements.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:01

We'll we'll leave that alone for now because why why did he do it? I'm trying to understand. I'm trying to understand.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:11

Because he could. Oh that that's back in.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:16

It's so funny. Oh my god. It's so funny. Yeah. So he comes cage comes storming in, and they just sh they they have Joaquin Phoenix and they just kill him.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:30

Yeah. Like pretty uneventfully. Like just like Kajam, like knife in the throat. You'd barely even see the blood come out the first time. You only see it afterwards because I'm like, is this another bad snuff film? Because the effects on that kill were not that good. And yeah, it perturbed Nick Cage a lot. That's for sure.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:47

It is not a snuff film level effect or whatever. That's what happened in the movie. Yeah. And so the the film gets burnt, and then again, Nick Cage throws out like a trap that is like, is he bluffing? Does he know for sure? Did he I don't know if he intuited something from the lawyer or inferred something? I don't know. But he is basically like, there was a million dollars, those guys were clearly paid way less to kill that girl and provide the eight millimeter. And I can't help. Have you seen Half-Baked? Oh, ages ago. Ages ago. So there's a crossbow in that movie. I think it's number 314. I wonder if that's the same crossbow in this movie. But it's like there aren't a lot of movies with crossbows and so much happenstance, but that's also that's half-baked. That's like an 85-minute, like goofy stoner movie. This movie has a similar level of writing that is trying to be not that.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:48

Yeah. But I I do think Dino Velvet owning a crossbow, I vibe with that. I vibe with the choice. Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:56

I think he absolutely would own it. I don't know if that was writing. I don't know if that's Stormar, Schumacher, both. I don't know. Totally makes sense. Yeah. And he is one of the hit he and Joaquin Phoenix are the people that are really nailing it for me in this movie because everyone is like dying in this movie. Uh we just talked about like maybe inarguably our shared favorite character in the movie, and there's fucking 40 minutes left. I don't understand it. Cage gets away, he has to have his little gun, and there's 40 minutes left, and Mrs. Christian, like now the now the time has come and to know one to say, not okay. Sorry, Mr. Mrs. Christian. But she she wants answers and then kills herself when she finds out the truth.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:46

But yeah, so I'm I'm shocked at how Mrs. Christian couldn't have maybe had an inkling that her husband was into weird shit because, like, I found this weird film and it's safe. I'm sure it's a mistake. There must be some explanation. And then she learns that a woman did actually die, and her response is off-screen suicide, but leave multiple notes to the many people involved in the film.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:10

Like, I here's a legit question. Is that the level? Is that our version of private browsing if you're 80 in 1999? That's actually incredible.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:26

It's like pull it out of your safe, put it in the projector, jerk off, and then it's like back in the safe you go. Nobody's the wiser. Nobody knew for this. Someone died. This is like also it's like, but how did she do it? Did she shoot herself? Did she hang herself? Did she fall out of her wheelchair? How did this it out of this woman? I really want to know in this rate.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:48

The butler just gives the envelopes. It I know they wanted David Fincher to direct this movie. It feels more like the game. I was thinking the game as well. Yes, yes, it does. And I yeah, we had Liz Ellis, writer Liz Ellis on here to talk about the game. She's not a fan of the game. And I ended up also kind of being like, I don't think I love this either. I love it's a yeah, it's a movie that exists in the real world, that it's a fantasy movie that has too many realistic elements. The movie is too goofy and tries to ride too many lines. So there's a a divorce threat now from Catherine Keener. You're not protecting us or being around us enough, you're not communicating with me. And I do like the work that these actors are doing in these scenes. I just don't love the writing. I don't love the lighting.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:40

I don't like because I feel like we've been pretty lock in step for a lot of this. I hate a lot of the Keener Cage dialogue. I hate a lot of it. I find the dial.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:49

I like them.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:50

I don't like what they're saying. I don't like any of like I like them as people because I know they do good work, but like it screams like 80s or 90s uh gritty thriller where you have the wife character on the sideline, just constantly just saying, Are you okay? What's going on? I need answers. And sh she fucking like her job is she edits textbooks. Like, there is nothing going on with this woman besides the fact that she has a boring job, a kid, and is occasionally worried about her husband because I hated every conversation between the two of them. So did I. You're gonna hate disclosure day.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:31

Oh god, I'm so nervous. I'm so nervous. I I think this is all horribly written. I don't like this writing. I don't know who did it. I really like Andrew Kevin Walker as a writer. I hate this stuff. I like what the actors are doing, I like that they're trying. Like, I think they may know that the dialogue is not great, so on and so forth, and the things that we're talking about, but fucking A, if they're not like good at their doing solid work with subpar material. Yeah, and so I'll give them that. Like, it's when Kate when Cage is beating the shit out of Gandolfini and they're at the scene of the crime, and Gandolfini man, I love Gandalf. The music is okay here. He's letting it loose. I just like I'm so not into the dialogue, the back and forth they're having. It doesn't feel real in terms of people that exist in these this world, these worlds.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:33

Like, you mean so this you're talking specifically like the the the sort of standoff where Nick Cage has his little gun in big old James Gandalfini's face and the stuff they're saying back and forth at each other.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:46

Is that the the dialogue you're referring to that you yeah, the dialogue's not only kind of corny and not I mean it's not pleasant, right? But it's also it doesn't feel salacious, yeah. And I know that I shouldn't be able to do it. It's like edge for that. I don't I don't want it, but yes, I think you hit the nail on the head there. Let me tip my cap. Well done.

SPEAKER_04 1:35:10

Malady.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:11

But the movie is just uh I'm gonna go back to the mom because now suddenly the mom's back and there's a call, and Nicolas Cage is like, because I know he's never gonna shoot Gandolfini.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:27

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:28

And Gandalfini even says, Oh, with your own registered gun from your own home, and it's like, okay, he knows what I know, but like I you know, do you think Cage is gonna kill him? Does he need the mom's permission at this point?

SPEAKER_02 1:35:41

No, it just seems like a writer up its own ass, like just being like, let's have this like incredibly overdramatic, intensely loud conversation where he calls her up and he's just like, I need you to tell me it like it. If I'm giving the movie credit, there was something kind of like pathetic and weird about him begging for permission to kill, almost like a dub sub uh um dom sub relationship because this movie's about SM. That was sort of my like generous view of that scene because he is weirdly just yelling at this woman to beg for permission because he's such a like he just can't do it himself. I didn't hate it, but it is kind of like a weird, like, let's get this mom back for one more conversation.

SPEAKER_03 1:36:27

I like that actress partly because I like rookie of the year. There you go. But it's also like I know there was so much more to that story at some point. Yeah, and you should have chosen whatever that was over some of the other stuff for that two hours and three minutes. Yeah, so we finally find the machine who's been stabbed and had to go to the hospital, and Stormar, I think, is dead, and Gandalf's dead, he's dead, and I don't know if you've seen the dead zone, yeah. The the Christopher Walken one. Yeah, Christopher Walken. This is if the Dead Zone were directed by Joel Schumacher, but without the cool lighting that the dead zone has. And it machine lives with his mom, and he's listening to like metal music and has danzig posters and it's so much dancing, and he lives next to a cemetery.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:23

Yeah, it's very seven, it's kind of seven-coated, but like sad seven-coated.

SPEAKER_03 1:37:27

Yeah, it reminds me of Silence of the Lambs, or as I said, the Dead Zone. And but there it's a rainy night with like a it also reminds me of Time Cop. Like this movie just feels derivative of so many things, and that's like kind of a bummer because there are movies that I enjoy that exist in this genre, sub-genre, niche genre. And Cage infiltrates the machine's house, and it's silent. I think it's supposed to be do you find it very eerie that the eck the record is skipping? I'll be honest, this move I liked it.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:06

I liked it a little bit. Like, I I like this. I I'm a big fan in horror movies of sort of like a recurring sound that keeps going. That's something that kind of does it for me. And it was, I would say the only thing that threw me was that like when we get the machine revealed, he has his mask on, and I find that weird and confusing because I'm like, he's in his home, his mother just left. Does he just put the mask on immediately so that we get the reveal in the rain with the mask coming off? Like, I it loses me, it it draws me in a little bit with the record scratch, but then as soon as we see him, I'm like, okay, here's the the sort of like Brad Pitt, Kevin Spacey like chase through the hallway, out the window. So I I appreciate that. I thought it was a nice little note.

SPEAKER_03 1:38:53

Did you I don't know, I'm sick of it. It doesn't really add anything for me. It does that's the thing, is I know the effect that it wants to have. Like you said, this is kind of a known trope. Yeah, and it doesn't really land for me. That's fair. This this movie feels like, oh, it's like Silence of the Lambs if it were directed by the guy who did flatliners. And I'm like, that sounds terrible.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:15

Yeah, why would it be?

SPEAKER_03 1:39:16

Somebody had told me that's what I was walking into. Yeah, like where it's like, yeah, I guess I don't know exactly because the machine knew Cage was walking up, so he knew to like pop the record off and go put his fucking Gip costume on. I don't want to justify these things. Silly. Like, I just want him, I just want the fight to have and light it like an unbreakable, yeah, or something like that. Like, just make it kind of like fantasy or eerie, uncanny, and this movie's trying to be too grounded. And the they have this fight, the machine and cage, and it doesn't always make sense, and then the machine takes his face off. Finally, he removes the mask.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:01

The face is off, and John Travolta is under the mask because the face was removed off, and it revealed John Travolta was the rival the whole time. I might have turned this movie off. I turned off eight millimeter and put on the end of face-off just for the fun of it. So that's I'm getting my my cages mixed up right now, but it's not it's not John Travolta, it's it's a gentleman known as Chris Bauer. He's an average guy.

SPEAKER_03 1:40:30

And I I gotta say, I've seen this guy in other stuff, TV and film work, yeah, and he's a solid actor, yeah, solid in a small role in face-off is what I believe one of the agents. Yep. And in this movie, I think they're trying to be like, this guy's like Michael Myers, he's just pure evil. I can't name a Halloween movie where I wouldn't feel in okay, that's not true. The Rob Zombies. Never mind, I'm not gonna go off now. So they're trying to make this guy kind of like Michael Myers, and when he pulls the mask off and puts the glasses on, I'm laughing. Yeah, and that's not a knock to the actor. The choice is just silly.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:12

And I think the again, it's the poor writing because when you look at this guy, I think the point is like he's meant to have a nothing face. He's meant to be an average Joe because 100%. Because what he says after is this it's the overwriting of this movie in a nutshell, where he's like, Were you expecting some disfigured monster, somebody who was abused, raped by his dad? Like he says all of this stuff, oh my god, a villain monologue at the end of eight millimeter fucking kill me. And I think I think he's just put me in an eight millimeter fuck it. And like this guy, it'd be so much better if he was just like, it's it very much again. I love this theme we're coming back to of like a bad version of good stuff, because it reminded me of Zodiac a little bit, where the reveal of Zodiac is just this like kind of chubby looking white guy, and that's often who we think, but they're often the killer. The killer that you've been looking for this whole movie is often just a regular guy who's into some fucked up shit, but is not doesn't have the backstory, doesn't have an origin, he just likes to fucking kill people, and that's the story, but it has to like pit it home over and over again.

SPEAKER_03 1:42:28

This is the beauty of the first Halloween movie, John Carpenter version. There's no explanation, and the huge misstep of the Rob Zombie movies is there's this over-explanation of why this thing is happening, and what you were saying about Zodiac is so spot on, and similar to what we were saying about backrooms, Zodiac and Backrooms have in common like, was it this? Was it that? Was it who? What? Huh? There's a level of vagueness that is so effective. And this movie is the anti-that. Yeah, it is the Rob Zombie, more so than any of the other examples that I just gave, I think. So Cage goes home to his wife and kid, and he's like, save me, and the whole wham-wham thing, and he gets the letter from the mom. Yeah. How do you feel about the letter?

SPEAKER_02 1:43:27

I I wrote down this as like a hallmark ending, like it feels like a studio happy ending that is atrocious, like absolutely atrocious.

SPEAKER_03 1:43:37

Yeah, it's really unpleasant. Her be her letting him know

Final Ratings

SPEAKER_03 1:43:44

that his she didn't want those men to die or didn't care for those men to die, or whatever she said, but also it made my daughter matter because it means that you cared and I cared, and that means my daughter mattered. And again, it's like a story of 15th or 17th storyline unexplored, unrealized, yeah, in a way overpacked two-hour and three-minute movie. You had me so nervous at the beginning that you were gonna be like, Well, yeah, only two hours and three minutes. Ha ha ha ha. That's a bad you. But not bad. Uh no, I I don't do it. I don't I don't think I did you much justice.

SPEAKER_02 1:44:22

It would be bold of you to do an impression of me in front of me in our second podcast ever. That would be so good. Okay, good.

SPEAKER_03 1:44:27

I'm glad you picked up my my level of like, I can't do you right now. Yeah. So you gave me the impression that you thought this movie was kind of breezy, and I was a little nervous.

SPEAKER_02 1:44:38

Oh no, that was pure, yeah. No, this is a a nightmare uh nightmare of a movie that is way too long.

SPEAKER_03 1:44:44

And like your tone got me.

SPEAKER_02 1:44:46

Yeah, and I would say to go back to the save me, save me part, and I I it's not about rewriting the movie, but I just like I imagined a better movie ending in that and it hitting like a really like good ton of bricks on your chest. Because there is like that's the Nicolas Cage magic, him crumbling in his wife and just begging her to save him because of this like journey he's been on, this like downward spiral he's been stuck in. Like that shit is cool, but because the movie's so bad, when we get to the save me, save me, you're like, Well, that doesn't hit at all, and then the raking the leaves, the weird smile at the end. Like, it's so weird that a movie about snuff films. Sorry to say it one more time, but it's it ends it ends with a a goofy Nicolas Cage smile. A goofy Nicolas Cage smile, and not like the movie a possessed, like face-off, like gifts, means just like he's like, gee whiz, that was a fun little adventure, a Catherine Cater, but now it's like looks back on it like, wow, wasn't that great?

SPEAKER_03 1:45:54

What a time I had.

SPEAKER_02 1:45:55

Remember all those guys that died and the many people who died?

SPEAKER_03 1:45:58

But people that I murdered, yeah. That I actually literally murdered my cat just jumped on the counters and inspecting my dinner utensils. Nice. That's not good. You know you're not supposed to be on the counter, you little. Well, you know, that's that's like actually perfect time.

SPEAKER_02 1:46:20

Well, she knows it's the end of the movie. She's like, she could sense we got to the end of the movie and got your attention.

SPEAKER_03 1:46:25

Mr. D, you were like, Well, I'm coming back to the review review. I get to use Paul as a punching bag again.

SPEAKER_02 1:46:31

Love it. This is my favorite thing.

SPEAKER_03 1:46:33

Yeah, I'm glad I talked about Rocky as you just put overdrive into turbo into supercharged turbo, hit the NAS button, was like, fuck you. I can't put, I can't, I can't put my finger on anything else I'd want to talk about. Is there anything else you want to mention?

SPEAKER_02 1:46:50

Uh don't fucking do it. Don't do it. I just I went back to the notes because I'm like, is this my cue to say something else you told me that I should say? But we have rich. I'll tell you what, we are at the end of the podcast and we can say our final you can make this up to me.

SPEAKER_03 1:47:04

All right. Come back soon and do Demon Knight. What's Demon Knight? Tales from the Crypt, Demon Knight.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:11

I actually just saw that Tales of the Crypt is on Shudder now. Okay, don't don't watch that movie before we do the episode, please.

SPEAKER_03 1:47:20

Tales from the Crypt. Tales from the Crypt, Demon Knight. Try to have it as fresh in your mind as you can.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:24

Ooh, a healthy 45% on Rotten Tomatoes. Oh my god. I just got a little I just looked at the cast and I'm already excited. I'm so sorry. You should be. Fuck.

SPEAKER_03 1:47:33

Uh, myself and another person and you will have seen it before, and you and Ben will not have seen it.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:40

That's incredible.

SPEAKER_03 1:47:41

And so I think it would be a really good balance. Uh, because I think that will be really required for that movie. You won't know what movie that's gonna be, listener. Hee hee. Love the surprises. Ah, aren't they fun? We love spooky season, man. We love our horror movies on the view review. Uh uh, although this was like an actual existential horror for me. I don't want to go on about why I'm rating this what I am. I think it's really clear. You heard my voice getting higher as I was like, I don't want to.

SPEAKER_01 1:48:16

I'm gonna calm down. Let's settle for a minute.

SPEAKER_03 1:48:19

This just movie, you just get that one weird little gun. Just the one. One, one out of five. I had a I had a good time talking about the movie and making jokes about it and commiserating, but that's also what I felt. Like, Mr. D, I love that you like movies. Right now, if you uh if you asked me, D does Mr. D like movies? He says he likes movies. I'd be like, oh, he's a liar. I am a liar because if if you look at my if you look at my hands, you rate the movies appropriately, you do rate appropriately.

SPEAKER_02 1:48:50

100%. And I think like I you just hate me. I hate you, Paul, but I love talking about eight millimeter with you because like it was it was a good chat. It's like I think bad, it's like in life, bad movies are sometimes more easy and fun to talk about than good movies. Because at the end of the day, ass is off.

SPEAKER_03 1:49:09

Yeah, we were talking about the cast, yeah. We were talking about there are some things in this movie that are done really, really, really well.

SPEAKER_02 1:49:17

Yeah, and I would say like we we breezed past it, but the James Gandolfini, when he starts uh giving fellatio to that little gun, I was like, the movie needs more of this energy. This is fucking sick.

SPEAKER_03 1:49:28

That feels like a Gandolfini thing if you've seen true romance or sopranos or oh yeah, his oeuvre. Yeah, that felt like a Gandolfini choice, and that fucking ruled. So I guess I was wrong. We uh didn't talk about everything. Good note.

SPEAKER_01 1:49:42

There we go.

SPEAKER_03 1:49:43

Did you like Nicolas Cage? Kiss my weird little gun, Gandolfini, suck my weird little gun. Weird little movie. So are you at a one as well?

SPEAKER_02 1:49:51

No, I I I'm sticking at a two. I think you I could pick up like a two.

SPEAKER_03 1:49:56

Yeah, because like I I was at a two before two, I think like one and a half. I was at I think I'm up to a two. You're going up. I'm gonna go to two.

SPEAKER_02 1:50:08

It's the crop, it's like a full crop top now. It's a full crop top. We can only see the belly button and on his beautiful white chest that we see. What did you like or really appreciate that brought your score up after this? It's honestly the things that we've talked about. Like I would say, like I would say, you know what it is? I at the start of this conversation, I was like feeling down. Like I can't believe we had to talk about this bad movie. But I think like there are things I noticed that I appreciated more than you did, whether it's like the weird um recurring record scratching, I love Peter Stromore, I love Gandolfini. I do think that like upon reflection, the second half of this movie, if you just watch from like he you we don't even know about the case, but the last like 75 minutes, I think it's kind of a bang-in, dark, weird movie. And I think it's just the problem that the first half is so slow, it drags so hard, it's unnecessary exposition to get us there. But once we're in the CD world, I think it's worthy of two stars. I think it's okay, I think it's there. I think two sexy crop tops. I'm gonna stick with two sexy crop tops by the end.

SPEAKER_03 1:51:13

I'm not getting as much of the performances that I want to be getting for as long as I want them. That's fair, and I think that's the main reason why my score came down. I'm really glad that you took the same thing and went up a half a point. Just like, hey, these people doing this work with this fucking material is really something. And me being like, yeah, but I want them to have to work more, which is shitty of me. Yeah. So what do we do? SM. What? Well, uh, if that's it, please mention your letterbox one more time. Of course, socials and all your things. This is the time where we do that.

SPEAKER_02 1:51:53

Yeah, absolutely. So uh you can find me at mr.d likes movies on Instagram and TikTok. I also host the Yada Yada podcast, which is a mix of a Seinfeld rewatch and a general pop culture now. Um, that's on Apple and Spotify. And yeah, follow me on Letterboxd. I love writing reviews there. Drisky D-R-I-S-S-K-K-Y.

SPEAKER_03 1:52:13

So you you can catch me on the Yada Yada podcast. Great episode.

SPEAKER_02 1:52:18

What episode? What did I do? That was the Bizarro Jerry, and holy smokes, we had a fun time. So please seek out that episode. That was that was a treat.

SPEAKER_03 1:52:26

So I love late season Seinfeld. I don't have to make that a secret here. Well, that's the episode, listener. We learned so much, we recommended so much, and ended at a score of one weird little gun, but you can put your tongue on it if you want. And Mr. D went up to a two. Again, if I'm talking, I don't know. This is you're a brave man. I really appreciate you. Thanks so much for joining us. Our book and themes are by Jamie Henwood. What you've been doing and what are you watching? are Matthew Foskett. Fun facts, lyrics are Chris Olds. Follow us at Run BMC. Uh, I'm at Paul XBadly. You heard Eric go over his letterboxed it. We're review x2 podcast, Instagram, blue sky flashes. Check out our subscription channel, the review. Check out our subscription channel, the complete review review with every episode and spin-offs like shelf help. Film in equality always. Room vroom. Turbo.